Presidential Race 2016

At best he is an opportunistic charlatan. At worst he's a fascist. He's independently wealthy, but he is neither a third party or a centrist.

 

First Place - No one is trying to MAKE Heather do ANYTHING.
She's a 'Grown Ass Woman' and not some Precious Snowflake Crybully, Social Justice Major peeking outside her 'Safe Space'.*
- If that doesn't give you an idea of the scorn I have for some Millennials, Lemme know.
- Hell, no one can make me do anything. And I've never considered ANY female to be more pliant than I am. Learned that early on.
- And, on this, I rest my case!
***
One of the problems is politics is too many people listen to WORDS, more than meanings.
- Gasp. We now have some unusual types, like Nicki Minaj of all people, saying: "Well Trump has a lousy way of getting it out there but at least he says SOMETHING." That puts her at an intelligence level way above 'The View' chicks. Lots of others are also NOW saying he might have something on a temporary Muslim Embargo.
And beware of people saying this is playing on OUR FEARS!
I really dont think so for the most part. When someone says that they are either projecting their own secret insecurities, OR displaying their sense of superiority to we plebians.

A really good way to find info on where anyone of note stands on a given issue is to .. get this.. use Google. For instance, Type
{name} on KELO
We find that Trump was wary of endorsing the New London fiasco, which the Progressive side of USSC validated and made precedent. Namely, a government body may use powers of eminent domain to tear down neighborhoods in order to increase its tax revenue.
Yet he had a famous case himself where he tried to use the same.

Also try
{name on "too big to Fail"

The beauty of doing it this way is you {as of now} have numerous viewpoints on any subject. Something you dont get from World-view-safe-space blogs or sites.

Added: I also find something new:
Trump attacks Ted Cruz for not supporting ethanol subsidies
sorta strange if his supporters are Tea Party. Generally TP despises ADM, Cargill handouts for nothing.

Still waiting for Don to find a way to award me a 'Tin Foil Hat'.

 

I thought my point was rather clear, but let me rephrase. No one should be trying to make her (or anyone) feel guilt for not voting. While I'm nowhere near being a Millennial, I do appreciate you pointing out that Heather has a backbone. After all these years and hours of chats, I really had no idea.

As for Trump, his "temporary Muslim embargo" is absolutely playing on fears. Whenever you propose rules because the least likely event may happen, that's what you're doing. Nothing new really, fear sells.

 

I hear you. And you certainly have the right to expound but you dont get to make up truth.

You sure do toss terms around easily. Even when it doesnt match the point you're making. Well, we all do that on occasion. THEN we have to explain or back off.

I CERTAINLY agree with 'opportunistic'.
I'd like to see YOUR definitions of the red words ESPECIALLY 'Fascist'. Which Progressives seem to assign readily to 'The Other', but NEVER to their darlings, even when given 'dead-smack' evidence.

Charlatan is a little tougher. Usually one who just tosses out what his audience wants to hear, applies so far... whether it reflects their own view or not. {Hmmmmm!} . Especially when expanded to the ultimate: and makes promises he has no intent to keep.
- I believe you have no evidence he does not believe what he is saying. Or making promises that he wont keep.
So, what about big governemnt 'Business as Usual' is not 'Centrist'? And how does 'third party' exclude him?

 

C'mon Fog, he's running in the GOP primary. He's threatened to run as a 3rd party candidate if he isn't treated better by the party, but as of yet, he's not a 3rd party candidate.

You might want to hope it stays that way or else you're probably looking at another Perot situation. (I don't think he can win as a 3rd party candidate...but then I didn't think he'd make it this far either.)

Put me down in the charlatan camp. This whole thing just feels like he's employing the lessons he learned creating reality television. He's contradicted himself on Planned Parenthood funding & now again with his stance on supporting the taking in of Syrian refugees, then calling for a ban on letting Muslims into the country. So who knows what he believes in or what he'll do outside of pandering.

 

Slow clap... Well played. Your response means that any explanation on my part to defend my argument is by definition, a failure. You must have been a champion debater. I don't know why I'm bothering with this since I'm clearly in a losing argument with you and I doubt I need to convince many others reading this thread, but here we go.

I don't toss those terms around easily, specifically "fascist". As much as I disliked George W. Bush, I don't think I ever felt like he was a fascist. You'll have to trust me, but I don't use that term frequently. I think that was the first time I've used that word here, even though Fulham had an authoritarian German manager.

As said in my original statement I put Trump on a range. I'm not sure he believes half the stuff he says, but he knows it is red meat to his audience so he runs with it (opportunistic charlatan). On the other hand if he does believe it then he is certainly acting like a fascist.

About everyone can come up with their own definition of fascist, but here is my understanding. A fascist is on the far right of the political spectrum (check), wants a militarized society (can't check this one yet for Trump), blames ills on "others" (check), doesn't mind violence or bullying to achieve political objectives (check), wants power centralized in the leader (check), and has a nationalist focus with protectionist policies (check).

If Trump comes out and says the best defense against domestic terrorism is to form local defensive militia groups then he'll have checked off the last box for being fully fascist.

 

You present a reasoned argument, Micah. And you do, too, Heather. But what I'm saying is that if there ever WAS an election to make your vote 'count against', this is it!

- Well, then.. the argument must be over.
- Because Progressives can THEN hardly be called 'Fascist' since they NOW admit they are 'Leftists'.
- Except, hmmm, have you ever taken on of those 'what are your politics?' Internet tests?
Politics is not a horizontal line!
On your other points; shall I enumerate the many Progressive comments on what should be done with those of the press and populace who DONT believe in Progressive Ideals?
Like Reeducation camps. Shooting their supporters?
Hell, Let's make it simple: YOU point out the Conservatives who want to force MSNBC off the cable bandwidth while I point out those who want to see Fox News blacked out.
- Shit, I watch 'MSDNC' more than FAUX News, anyway. Just to see how stupid single issue analysts can be. We're back to 'Anyone who criticizes Obama is a Racist' btw.

Can we argue on whether Stalin was a Fascist.. and the real difference between HIS Socialism and Hitler's? The only real difference was in the titular 'Ownership' of the Financial/Industrial complex. The planning and management was for all intents in the hands of the government. Is there a difference to this day? Tell me Gazprom makes their own decision on who gets their natural gas!
Look at Germany's Energy sector and tell me they are 'Free Market!'. If you think they are, I will try to explain in simple terms. But they ARE NOT!

Shall I point out the ease of switching POV we saw in 2007? Many nominal Progressives, even a few on here, quickly moved to the Ron Paul camp. Do we want to perhaps look for a connection between Paulistas and Trump supporters? How about OWS? I already mentioned the Tea Party Patriots... What if they have given up and simply want to punish the Establishment for treating them like imbeciles?

Heather: Dont know if it's possible to find out but you might be interested in WHEN I changed my Sig line. From the BEGINNING, I smelled something wrong with Trump jumping in.
And the Sh*t is starting to hit the fan..

Hispanic activists vow to flood voter rolls with 1 million immigrants, punish Trump, GOP at polls

Wow. What a coincidence. Who could have seen that coming!
One little niggle, of course, WHY punish the GOP when they dont want Trump at all? Gee, I dont have a clue... /snark
So.... Bottom line, I agree he's a 'charlatan', I think we probably disagree on which definition. He IS saying what he believes, at the moment. His ulterior motive is what counts.
Gonna say again, the DNC could not possibly delineate a better Plan B, OR, Plan C.

So, if you at all give a crap about the future of Democracy you will not sit this one out.
Even if it's 'voting against'
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Extra Added Entertainment: This is my FB profile pic.

Which I Adopted because my loony populist son forbade me to use his kids' pix on any of my 'Hateful Right Wing Rants'. Yeah he hates Faux News and blew up when I pointed out that city use of Eminent Domain to raise tax base was 'Socialist', replied "well I guess you dont like Police and Fire, Roads and Schools."
I then wisely shut up. I tried my best when he was young to let him express himself and that's what I ended up with.
Funny thing: One of his FB friends called me a Racist and the same son verbally ripped him a new asshole.
Go figger!
Lol...

 

What a crock of SHIT, Don! Who the F**k MADE it that way!

I am not putting up with that.. I'll giggle and make wisecracks at your 'tin Foil Hat' and remarks about how Marxism and Anarchy are not at all connected, cuz you and I certainly see irony there.
But to take "Identify, Isolate, Ridicule" and THEN attribute it to 'The Other" is somehow debasing the discussion?
I ALREADY SAID i would prefer a pragmatist 'RINO' like Kasich. But I remember how Dems point to GOP good guys until Campaign Time then make them into the Devil. Review Bush 41, McCain, Romney.
You DO NOT get to play both sides of that argument.

Let's examine how election of 'The One" indeed opened a frank national dialog on race? Before you answer that look at 2009 approval ratings across parties.
How's THAT^ working out!

***

 

I get you, Heather! I know it's tough modding a rant thread. Been there, done that.
I think Don will attest {If he wants to remember,} that I ran a pretty wide open 'debate' section on Politics. I only exercised deletion privileges once and that was against a guy named 'ChicagoFFC' who despite numerous warnings insisted on trolling me personally.

Another guy named 'FFC24' was a different case. His sig line was 'If man can conceive of it, man can do it'* pointed to larger issues he had. ie; that phrase applies to science and physics, NOT philosophy. Because 'Human Nature'!

Well, I'm having some fun again but like I said, we need to address -with your consent- these 'philosophical issues' on another thread.

 

"Who gives a crap if they're socialists. They could be fascist anarchists. Still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car."


One final point from me on the whole fascist bit. I do worry greatly about the kind of behavior Trump could intentionally or unintentionally encourage. Brownshirt type stuff. Hopefully I'm overreacting and he's just a footnote two years from now.

 

Trump will always be a footnote, regardless of the election's outcome. However, that doesn't solve the absence of a dynamic leader / candidate, one that can unify a country and not parse it, further. That would be something amazing to witness, bringing the fold together. But, the left and right (take that generalization as you may for a wide swath of folks) continue to move apart related to positional / ideological issues, in a voluntarily manner by each party, instead of trying to come together. There are bright minds leaking intellect because of ideology in both parties, look around and see 'what's goin' on.' Each party leader shall be required to listen to "Come Together," and then sit down and talk.

 

It's a nice pipe dream, Nev. Problem is the easiest path to victory is differentiating yourself...and then vilifying the opposing side. When you compete for the middle ground, you're left with having to demonstrate you can do the job better. I imagine that thought scares the shit out of the parties...and probably most politicians.

 

Well, Don. Good stuff on fascism. And BTW, I dont care who you voted for. Dunno why it's important that you say that. Dubya's done. But in that vein I find it interesting since you despise Faux News.
Whatever.
My caveat in that area is that I never have and never will say that BHO is not my President, however much I may criticize him.