Your political views?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by FFC24, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    I assume you've followed the Dartmouth board alumni controversy, then.

    Remember 'Indoctrinate U'? Cruise around Evan Coyne Maloney's blog.

    And that you've ignored Ben Stein's craptastic movie.. would be good to reference against, for credibility, though.

    Are you following the Canadian HRC Show Trials? That's the most depressing thing in our society today.

    Google Mark Steyn


    On the other side:

    The Myth of Political Correctness: The Conservative Attack on Higher Education
     
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  2. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

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    Sep 13, 2007
  3. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Well, I'm no huge fan of politcal correctness -- especially not on a college campus. There are plenty of federal and state laws to protect students who are really harrassed. Most of the "conduct codes" that colleges have adopted are really fascist and, as such, ARE NOT LIBERAL!!!!!! There's too many restrictions on free speech as it is. We don't need MORE restrictions -- especially not on state run college campuses.

    Where there is severely mandated political correctness, with huge consequences, is in the workplace. Even a mildly ribald joke between friends of opposite sexes can result in penalties just IN CASE someone should overhear. Despite the fact that this is deep into the corporate mentality these days, most of the right-wing whining about political correctness is directed towards college campuses. I believe this exists for two basic reasons:

    1. Since the private sector can do no wrong, we can't be criticizing them -- especially not large corporations.

    2. NeoCon philosophy is so self-contradicting and illogical, that it's best appreciated if you don't have an inquiring mind nor a college education. In an effort to gain acolytes to "the cause," NeoCons consistently pour hate and scorn on college campuses and -- especially -- college professors [with the exception of those they employ in their think tanks].

    Last word on PC. In the south, we've had political correctness for generations. We just call it being polite.
     
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  4. SteveM19

    SteveM19 New Member

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    Cleveland OH
    Thanks for the help all, as this paper will be front and center for my weekend plans :oops: :x :?

    And I though I was done w/ all this nonsense when I graduated a long time ago.
    Don, your point number 2 is entirely off base.

    NeoCon philosophy is so self-contradicting and illogical, that it's best appreciated if you don't have an inquiring mind nor a college education.

    I root my conservative thought in Jeffersonian ideals that go back to Edward Burke, the Magna Carta, and more. Any political philosophy course will cover these men in detail. I will be doing my part to promote conservative thought in my classrooms to my young students as they will be exposed to more than enough liberal thought in their curriculum.

    Inquiring mind or college education? I beg to differ. And I'll bet a copy of the Wealth of Nations on my point.

    Also, I like the politically correct movement -- it is proof that I haved lived long enough for the left to have ceded the freedom of speech issue to those of us on the right side of the spectrum. Thank you Berkeley, Boulder, and the like.
     
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  5. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Don, I have to take exception to point number two, also. The hate and scorn is coming from you when you basically claim that conservatives are intellectually inferior. If that isnt intolerant thinking I dont know what is. I'm not surprised though because I hear it everyday where I live - a very liberal suburb of Cleveland with Obama signs as far as the eye can see. I learned long ago not to discuss anything other than liberal ideas with my friends because of the reception any other type of thought received. Always wondered how it is liberal not to be capable of listening to other points of view, other ideas, or to stop challenging your ideals.

    I also always wondered why they cant extend the same tolerance and understanding of Muslim groups who oppress women to the "crazy right-wing Christians" right here in their own country.
     
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  6. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Steve, as one who has a lot of respect for real conservatives, I'm glad you have a classical, academic grounding in the discipline, and I'm glad you're going to devote at least a portion of your life in instructing young people. When I adjunct lectured, my political philosophy wasn't the point of my instruction, rather it was the hope that my students would think of government, politics, or history as something other than three hours they had to sit through in order to get a grade.

    What I referred to, and I see you quoted it TWICE was NeoCon "philosophy." Grounded as you are in Burke, Smith, and Goldwater, certainly you see the NeoCon aims in increasing the size of national government, weakening the legislative branch, elective wars, profligate deficit spending, manipulation of interest rates in order to discourage savings and encourage stock speculation, cronyism in government contracts -- runs 100 counter to conservative philosophy and tradition.

    I criticize NeoCons because I think they are the political equivalent of a "short-run investor." I think that no political faction creates more unintended consequences than they do. I also criticize Neo-Conservatism because it concentrates almost wholly on "if so and so criticizes us that proves we're right." Where in NeoCon literature do you see "we are following in the tradition of Burke. We are small government, civil libertarian conservatives, committed to keeping the government out of your churches, your bedrooms, your doctors offices." No, NeoCons support knee-jerk emotion as opposed to logic when espousing their beliefs. When I was a young lad forging my own philosophy, I was a bit disturbed that it was the conservatives who dealt with logic and analysis and consistency, and it was Liberals who were all about emotion and "doing what's right." These days, thanks to the NeoCons, it's exactly the opposite. NeoConservatism capitalizes on fear, insecurity, insularity, and divisiveness and ridicules higher education and nuance.

    I also must say that I sort of chuckle every time I hear a person who calls him/herself a conservative make a spirited defence of our president and his administation. How a real conservative can applaud a budget-busting, imperial, intrusive central government is beyond me. It is also totally beyond me when that same bunch can look at John McCain and say "he's not really a conservative." Amazing.

    But, anyhow, if you're a real conservative with a real philosophy, your ox was nowhere near gored. I couldn't be happier that you've found your way to the right through intellect, and a committment to what is important as you see it.

    Carry on, dude.
     
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  7. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Sigh. Selective reading strikes again.

    Mo, I'm talking NeoCon; not "crazy right-wing Christians." And although there's plenty of scorn for these folks, there's no hate at all.

    Stop falling for the gag that someone who criticizes the administration (1) Hates Bush (2) Hates Christianity, (3) thinks you're stupid. That's part of the NeoCon defense mechanism designed to keep you from examining the huge gap between what they say that the WILL do and what they HAVE done. And it's not true. I have to admire their success, however, in getting their supporters to take criticism not as criticism of the government but somehow as criticism of them personally.

    And don't put words in my mouth, kiddo. That's Pettyfog's job! :wink:
     
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  8. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Fixed your post.

    DENY IT !!!!
     
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  9. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    There it is -- yet another right-wing manufacture job -- you know, like photoshopping inflammatory photos, and talking about the content and merits of a video that may or may not exist. Well done. How can anyone ever doubt your veracity now.

    I know you're hoping that the right wing can "fix" history just as easily, so that during the 8 years of the Bush administration, everyone enjoyed more wealth, more security, more unity, and more happiness. Trust me; you will succeed.
     
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  10. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    Let's examine the Dem Congress... what they said they'd do {remember the '100 days'?} and what they did?

    Let's look at how they would fix energy costs, and who they blame for the price of gas. Just like you, without presenting a shred of evidence.
     
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  11. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Ooh, now I see the light:
    1. you didn't falsify my post
    2. nobody photoshops false pictures on right-wing sites.
    3. the economy is in wonderful shape
    4. GWB is our best president ever
    5. I've seen the video that doesn't exist and Michelle does say "hate whitey" and she says it while wearing a "I love Muslim terrorists" tee-shirt
    6. And all of it is the fault of the Democratic congress since January 2007.

    Thanks so much!

    If this thread ever goes back to informational rather than cheap shot non-sequitor crap, I'll post again. Until then I bend to the unarguable logic of the right wing as perpetuated by our own Pettyfog. Up is down; black is white; left is right; poor is rich; and war is peace.

    Ta ta fellow citizens.
     
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  12. FulhamAg

    FulhamAg New Member

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    San Antonio, Texas
    It would appear the "con" in neo-con is confusing the issue. Of course you're not helping matters by flipping back and forth between using neo-con and "right" when firing your little barbs. While most conservatives probably don't consider themselves neo-cons (I hope not, at least), they damned sure consider themselves "on the right". That's probably why people are taking things you write personally when it doesn't really apply to them.
     
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  13. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    fair point, Ag. I have no problems with real conservatives, but I have a lot of problems with NeoCons. Having said that, the "right" that I'm criticizing is the right that does talk-radio and blogs that are all about divisiveness, scapegoating, and bigotry with only a passing glance at accuracy and truth.

    I couldn't be against the "right" -- since, as you may have seen in earlier posts on this thread and elsewhere, I have aspects of fiscal conservatism and civil libertarianism as part of my political stance.

    I must admit, though, that I don't take seriously "Conservatives" who consider this administration's concentration of power in the national executive branch, profligate spending, huge deficits, elective wars, and a propensity for dispensing with Constitutional rights, as consistent with Conservative principles but say that McCain is NOT a Conservative.

    And it really doesn't matter what I post when 'fog is responding. You've probably already noticed that when he doesn't have an answer for what I say, he attacks what I didn't say or what I should be saying.
     
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  14. FulhamAg

    FulhamAg New Member

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    No, I've got a pretty good idea where you're coming from and know who you were referring to. I only brought it up b/c I'd gathered you don't believe Mo and Steve hold neo-con beliefs, and weren't referring to them, yet you found yourself in the position of having to explain yourself.

    As for Fog, that's your tango, Bubba. I reckon I've got that one pegged as well. Will find out for sure over that beer. :wink:

    Oh, and for the record....I can't stand Bush for the exact reasons you mentioned, don't trust McCain to be much better, but find the alternative even less attractive. Especially with a dem stranglehold on the Legislature. I'm not a fan of letting either party run full bore.

    Come to think of it, I'm not a fan of either party these days...
     
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  15. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    oh, yeah; gotta get that beer going.
     
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  16. SteveM19

    SteveM19 New Member

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    Sep 30, 2007
    Location:
    Cleveland OH
    While I was using the links provided in this thread to find sources for this paper (thanks Mo and Fog) I happened to notice Don's reference to Seig Heil Barbie. The funny thing was that when I first read it I apparently was having a dain bramaged moment -- I had no idea who he meant!

    Now that I figured out who that is, her name still isn't worthy of mention.

    Oh, and the paper is coming along slowly but steadily.
     
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  17. Spencer

    Spencer Active Member

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    Jul 1, 2005
    I read the the Wall Street Journal Op-ed's but not as much as I read the New York Times Op-ed's. I listen to Limbaugh or Hannity occasionally and watch O'riley more frequently but not as often as I watch Olberman. And of course I read p-fog and his endless righty blogs all the time, that must count for something!

    As far as books are concerned I've been staying away from the flavor of the moment political books and reading novels instead. Can't say I've taken in any classic political theory as of yet.

    So I take in both sides but more of mine than the other. I suspect thats the case for most people who bother to take in anything at all (that I'm afraid is a minority in itself though).
     
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  18. Spencer

    Spencer Active Member

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    Jul 1, 2005
    That goes both ways.

    It seems the majority simply go with the flow and struggle to justify it under scrutiny while those that do hold opposite opinions, more of them than you think sometimes, don't push them when its clear there not in a friendly environment.
     
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  19. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Which, I guess, is why I'm a Neocon.... for lack of better definition. I scorn the idiots on both sides, {note Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan are paleo-cons} and they scorn me.
     
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  20. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    So let's get back to the original subject and original poster.

    Having my own ideas on what Anarchy entails, somehow I neglected to referencethe wiki on it

    There's a lot of interesting background there on anarchic societies, but little mention on how rare practicing anarchy is in any modern society.
    I note that back in 1651 this truth AND a misstatement was made:
    Indeed he rightly states that man, without rule of law, is subject to whatever lusts drive him. But he says that Amerindians were under this state of Anarchy. Which we now know to be, in large part, incorrect.

    So, considering we have seen in recent posts that FFC24 sees no need for private automobiles, he gets along nicely taking the bus; nor Credit Cards, cash works just fine we have to assume that anyone in his circle of anarchy would feel the same.
    But what if they dont? Who gets to decide if private transportation is allowable? And what .. are bicycles allowed? OR do we agree that no motorized vehicle will be privately owned? Does the anarchic collective own the bicycle? Who gets to decide who uses it? What if someone hogs it?
    What about farmers?
    Or does everyone work the collective? So who invents the tractor.. or is it invented at all, considering an ox can pull the plow. But wait... what benefit did the guy who invented the plow get or who learned how to make an ox pull it? You can turn ground with a stick. But why grow stuff at all? It grows free in nature.
    And who gets to decide who eats what?

    Further... suppose that there was arranged a Convention of Modern Anarchists somewhere in the South Pacific and a plane chartered to get there. On board are nothing but anarchists.

    The plane is for some reason forced down and the whole bunch ends up on an uncharted desert island.. like "Lost".

    So now we have 100 anarchists marooned on a hospitable land and with a chance to build their dream society. We assume there are, among them, woodmen, survivalists and former boy scouts who know how to make stuff out of nothing. But also many accountants and lawyers.

    Oh... there's 60 males and 40 females.

    Will we have that 'anarchic society'.. everyone 'doing their own thing' and all?

    I
    Dont
    Think
    So
    - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -
    {aside}
    How can anyone imply that Limbaugh and Hannity are interchangable? I'm not talking about their political views, they mostly are. I'm speaking of the subjects and verbiage used on their respective programs. Hannity is pre-school conservatism and endless repeating of conservative talking points. You cant tell if you're listening to a current day program or one from 18 months previous.
    The ONLY reason for listening to Hannity for anyone who listens to Rush are his interviews with pols and strategists. it's what they have to say that's interesting, not Hannity.
     
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