Voice in the UK wilderness..

Telegraph: We pay to have an underclass

And despite conservative programs in the US showing time after time that this view is correct, the prevalent indoctrination of the young by both press and academia will surely take us down the same path.

Note: Read all the article, especially the comments. Note the references to 'It's all Thatcher's Fault!' No... not there, but responding to the whing element who seek to blame anyone but their own failed policies.

If we didnt have more important threats to worry about I could post my deep dark wishes that all welfare proponents be pilloried in the town square...

As it is though, come the day, we will need them to rise up in humiliation and rage against the Mullahs among us.

 

How good to be able to pull one's head out of the sand in point x and immediately implant it at point y.

It is when and if actions are taken to resolve such social dilemma and what they are. And there will ALWAYS be those that believe more welfare programs {money} and more understanding {enabling} will do the trick.

Better that than see the lifelong personal belief system go down in flames. And this is why some will never change; it's as pertinent to human nature as going the easy route to welfare is.

 

So THAT'S why so many people don't have maps!

 

This statement applies to yourself as much as anyone else, right?

I'll make sure to get to this article it looks interesting.

 

Of course it applies to me...I've sucked at the {'free' benefits, not welfare} teat... and probably will again. {hopefully, NOT welfare}

And I dont know how many different ways I can put it, Don. Some things historical cannot be denied.

I'll never stop blaming conservatives for their part in the fallout of the "Great Society" programs*, but it was a case of myopia... and myopia being exactly why failed programs keep getting tried.
* namely breaking up households by the criteria of 'able bodied earner'

The issue is not, however, what is now ancient causative history... and the causes are many, it is what the result is. It is the implication in the article that something must change or it will get worse.

Blaming the current state of affairs on the industrial revolution and the classist nature of society is like using the fact that tobacco companies covered up the evidence showing smoking causes cancer to counter the argument that hypnosis cannot cure it.

If any of you would like to discuss the thread of the article, rather than try to distract focus from it, fine... otherwise I'll just let it lie as is.

By the way... since I wrote that, one sheeple did indeed come onto the comments and eloquently outline exactly that it WAS all Thatcher's fault.

 

I was refering more to the advocating more of the same rather than seeing the life long personal belief system go down in flames. Do you stretching your neck to look at somthing from the other side anymore than the those you accuse?

As for the article; this was the best point;

I do think by ever expanding welfare you create a pocket with enough stability that people are reluctant to leave it. Same reason people stay in a job thats beneth them for 30 years, never reaching for somthing more. Its to comfortable to stay in the status quo, and if you grown up in poverty than poverty is your status quo. Pushing oneself is a constant battle, by giving more and more money not to work your making it a much harder battle. You need the incentive and you need to know it can be done and how to do it.


and this was the best rebuttal;

Having no welfare is hardly the situation either. Look at a situation like Detroit. There's no jobs! You can't just let people starve thats not the way to do it.

Personally I think the career orientied education in high schools is really crappy. It consists of go to college! go to college! Well at the current price thats not a real feasible option for many who don't wish to incur 60k in debt. I making a go starting at the affordable community college and working and saving as I do but deadly loans will in time be unavoidable. Depressing.
Besides that theres loads of people with college degrees who work sh!t retail jobs. Its not the silver bullet they claim. College isn't for everyone, that needs to be realized and alternatives taught. Educate on how much can be made as a pipe fitter, electrician, or truck driver and what are the steps they need to take to pursue that career and help them get it on track. I don't think theres much of that going on. I never saw it anyhow.

Good goverment assistance programs are possible heres one I took advantge of!
http://education.state.mn.us/mde/Academ ... index.html

Its a Minnesota program started under our last Dem governor in 85'. Basically this, if your a high school junior or senior and meet admission standards to a college you can go take classes at the college for FREE, 100% everything. The credits gained count not only as college credit of course but as credits towards your high school graduation.
The thing is when you do it the funds for you as a student transfer from your high school to the college your attending, and so many schools tend not to mention it much, or worse outright discourage it. Thankfully my charter school did the opposite and nearly pushed me out the door, printed off the forms and made me fill them out in front of them. They knew it was best for me and it was. I stretched myself academically and got a semesters worth of college credit free of all cost, saved me a minimum of $2500. Perfectly logical gov't program, there not all underclass expanding welfare boons, it can be done. Incentive all about incentive.

 

Yeah it's a GREAT rebuttal, but it's not true.

THAT is what the 'Great society' programs were about. People have a right to their opinion but not to their version of 'the TRUTH' and it's not true.

And who, pray tell, is asking here for a total elimination of 'welfare' programs? How did that thought get in? I didnt say it, because I dont believe it.

And now let's talk about the US having a 'larger underclass' that the UK... again.. WHOSE opinion.

And .. again we've gotten off the point. It really ISNT a parochial/nationalist pissing contest is it?

Spencer hit the point when he pointed out that benefits must have limits and they must encourage ESCAPE from the quagmire of government support.

That's what 'Clinton's Welfare Reform' was about.

And I would NEVER say that affirmative action OR schools bussing shouldnt have been tried. The point is that they both had their down-sides.. and the recipients, after a while, realized that.