US v ENGLAND

Discussion in 'Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International' started by SoCalJoe, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. LaxAttack

    LaxAttack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    A pretty good read on the formations/strategy from today's game.

    http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/13/ ... sa-tactic/

    As for me, Howard was MOTM with Dolo the runner-up. Capello admitted after the game that he subbed Millner off since Dolo was giving him too many problems.

    Donovan also commented that the new ball might have played a factor in Dempsey's goal and he might take a few more outside type shots than he normally does after seeing that one.

    And Gooch proved me wrong. I did not think he could go the full 90, but he did and did well.

    Today was a great result, but have to take advantage of it and take care of business in the next two games.
     
    #41
  2. sullytex

    sullytex Member

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    Nov 15, 2008
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Nevzter, I can almost ditto everything you said, down to the SN pale ale I drank all game.

    Not exactly pretty but as my old Scottish coach once said, appealing to the obvious, you can't score unless you hit it on target. How great is it that mr. Demps gets the goal. Love the point, love keeping the bragging rights, love our chances on getting thru.

    I think we can improve on this game and we have somewhat lesser opponents to do it with. Great day for American soccer (and my favorite and lucky color has always been Green...hey I am a Sullivan!). I love soccer (sierra nevada talking).
     
    #42
  3. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    I'm not convinced of that. I have a feeling people in England will focus a lot on Heskey's failure to score a goal and forget that he set up Gerrard's goal on a silver platter.
     
    #43
  4. FulhamAg

    FulhamAg New Member

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    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    That was fun. I watched at a tapas bar with HatterDon. We were both optimistic with England's midfield lineup and sure enough, we bossed the midfield. England didn't have a ball winner out there until Rooney started drifting back to midfield more in the 2nd half. With the exception of about 5-10 minutes, he was frozen out of the match and that was huge.

    Defensively I thought we were much better than I'd expected outside of the early goal and chances. The marking was odd for the first 15 minutes. Either Gooch got suckered or we were trying to man mark, resulting in Gooch being pulled out and Clark failed to stay with Gerrard. But the back four settled down after 10-15 min and looked more like the usual US defense from then on.

    Donovan and Demps drove the bus on offense. After the early goal, England looked content to sit back a bit and we did a good job maintaining possession and the team looked to grow in confidence. Then Clint made Green a household name in the worst way possible. Jozy came oh so close in the 2nd, but we couldn't nick the win. Good point for us, and while it shouldn't be bad for England, it'll be taken that way.

    I didn't have an issue with Findley starting, he's shown good passing, vision and pace in the tuneups. But I was hoping to see Bradley use Gomez around the 70th minute. He's been on a roll scoring off the bench and I thought we should keep using him in that capacity until his run goes cold.

    As for England, there'll probably be enough heat to go around. Heskey and Rooney couldn't link up the whole match. Rooney was awol for most of the match. Their midfield was outplayed. SWP is really fast but absolutely useless, especially when played out of position on the left. Green had the howler. Carragher was fortunate to get out of the match with just one yellow. England's cb's are pathetically slow. And Capello made some really odd choices.

    Being in a heavily pro-USA partisan pub in Texas when a Texan scores the equalizer ain't a bad thing. Good point, good time, good day.
     
    #44
  5. SteveM19

    SteveM19 New Member

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    Cleveland OH
    From the Times, 13 Jun --


    [​IMG]
     
    #45
  6. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    Much as it pains me to say it, I thought Terry had a really good match. :?
     
    #46
  7. LaxAttack

    LaxAttack Well-Known Member

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    Jan 27, 2007
    Oh yeah, Dempsey becomes the second American ever to score a goal in two different World Cups.

    The other: Brian McBride.

    COYW!
     
    #47
  8. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Thanks for the link Lax. It was pretty interesting. Although I must say I dont totally get the author saying Onyewu had problems with the zonal marking all night by being drawn too far forward. Rooney can exploit zm by being between zones; he has done it before. Whether it's Gooch's or Bradley/Clark's mistake to me seems to depend on their game plan.
     
    #48
  9. BarryP

    BarryP New Member

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    Evansville, Indiana
    It was an interesting read and I have to say that I agree with the author's assessment that Gooch stepping out of position was a problem. England's best opportunities including Gerrard's goal and Heskey's 1 v 1 with Timmy happened because Gooch stepped up to high leaving huge gaps for England to exploit. The US back line at its best keeps players in front while clogging the box. Gooch had two choices on Gerrard's goal. One was to step up and challange Rooney and the other was to hold his position and give Rooney space outside the box. As nuts as it sounds Gooch made the wrong choice. By stepping up to challange Rooney he forced either Boca or a CM to try and cover the area he should have been in creating a huge hole in what is supposed to be a back four. If he stays back he gives Rooney room to operate but both Demerit and Boca are in position to help him and Bradley and Clark possibly have time to recover. At worst he probably gives Rooney a shot from distance. Gooch created the exact same problem on Heskey's 1 v 1 with Timmy by stepping up instead of holding his position and giving groud.

    If the US is going to play a flat back 4 with Boca on the left Gooch cannot step up and challange because Boca does not have the speed to cover the space he is leaving open.
     
    #49
  10. Martin-in-Nashville

    Martin-in-Nashville New Member

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    At least get your facts right PF that headline months old (December 2009) and was not from Saturday's paper, but thanks for an effort.
     
    #50
  11. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    I read it till I understood what he meant. He has a point from the tactical POV but OTOH Rooney didnt score, did he!
     
    #51
  12. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    It was fun watching with FulhamAg. The tapas bar was our 3rd choice. Our regular pub was chock-full-o-Brits with a dozen or so yanks around. there was noplace to sit down or even to stand. The second choice was less full of football supporters, but they were augmented by people watching TCI-Texas in the CWS.

    The third place was perfect though. As Matt said, it's fun being in a bar in Texas when Dempsey scores. What was weird though, is having the whole place go into an uproar when the team I'm supporting does something good. It IS unusual.

    I tried to keep from shouting since I had a gig later in the evening, but when we found Jozy on the wing with only the HMS Carragher to defend him, I leapt out of my seat and yelled "TURN HIM TURN HIM TURN HIM" until he did. Neither of us realized that the shot had hit the upright until the replay about 5 minutes later.

    As far as impressions of the game, I was stunned with the England lineup from the beginning. First in that there was no midfield ball winner on the park. I don't know how many times Gerrand and Lumpolard have to prove that they don't play well together before they stop playing together. Secondly, I figured that the logical man to play against Gooch was Crouch. If Gooch can't outjump a 5'8" Czech, Crouch would be the guy to expose his weaknesses. I was very pleased that Heskey started.

    Then there were the English tactics. There was so much pace on the right with Johnson and Lennon -- I spent 90 minutes dreading the Lennon-Boca matchup that really never occured -- it amazed me that England abandoned that apprroach and, instead, sent an immediately overmatched Milner against Cherundolo. Perhaps Cappello is like the US media: perhaps he undervalues 'dolo because he makes his living with a mid-table bundesliga side.

    Finally, with a midfield containing four attackers, how was it that Rooney received the ball in the penalty area the very first time at about minute 85?

    Facts

    1. Donovan and Bradley completely bossed the midfield for 90 minutes.
    2. Altidore and Dempsey showed more desire to get after England than the entire England team showed to get after us -- and I'm aware that Altidore did absolutely nothing until his "almost goal."
    3. Johnson and Cole proved yet again that if you can force them to stay at home and defend, their value is reduced by half. Contrast that with 'dolo, who pays you back in full with his defense and who gives you a bonus every time he marches upfield.
    4. There is no logical reason for having Carragher on the England squad, never mind on the pitch. He is Cappello's Woolcott.
    5. If anyone in that dressingroom was able to look Rooney in the face, I would be very surprised.
    6. the result was NOT an upset. Roberto Martinez's comments were most appropraite -- "The English papers will blame the result on Green, but that will be wrong. England did not do the job in defense or in the midfield." He's dead right.

    What should trouble England is that they didn't play a poor match. Milner isn't going to play his best stuck on the left wing as a stalking horse for Barry. Green and James are never going to be good enough to be in the top 25=30 GKs in South Africa. Carragher and Heskey aren't suddenly going to possess pace, and Lennon isn't going to contribute anything more than pace. The USA were better organized, more disciplined, and more of a consistent threat than England. England will still almost certainly get out of the group easily, but with the pace and aggession that Germany showed today, they had better hope to finish first, or theirs will be a very short tourney.

    Pettyfog is right about this most important thing. We're hitting our stride at the perfect time. This could turn out to be a fun WC after all.
     
    #52
  13. jimsig

    jimsig Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Location:
    Boston
    Grabbed these from another web site:

    some internet jokes from england supporter website at the expense of mr. green...


    * At least that's one British spillage the Americans won't be moaning about...

    * What's the difference between Robert Green and Justin Bieber? Robert Green knows how to drop his balls.

    * Kermit was right: It's not easy being Green.

    * The England lads had a get-together after the game and bought Robert Green a drink to commiserate. He spilled it.

    * Steven Gerrard said: "The whole team is behind Rob Green." With hindsight, that's a good place to stand.

    * Robert Green - a joke even Americans can understand.

    * Yesterday at London Zoo one of the staff let a a Central American monkey slip out of his grasp. So Robert Green's not the only English keeper to drop a Howler.

    * My computer's got the Robert Green virus. It can't save anything.

    * Just bought a Robert Green condom. Extra slippery and you're guaranteed not to catch anything.

    * I'm Robert Green and cleaning Windows is my next idea...

    * All these Rob Green jokes are getting out of hand. In fact they're crossing the line...

    And the best England v USA joke which doesn't feature Robert Green is.. .

    * It was a clever move to bring Shaun Wright-Phillips on. For 15 minutes the Americans were stunned, thinking Gary Coleman had come back to life.
     
    #53
  14. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    How long are you going to keep on harping on that? It happened one time, weeks ago, in his first match in forever. He looked fine in the air yesterday.
     
    #54
  15. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    I thought he played very well yesterday, Josh.
     
    #55
  16. SteveM19

    SteveM19 New Member

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    Sep 30, 2007
    Location:
    Cleveland OH
    Good jokes, but I am still in Green's corner. Stand tall boss, no one died and you have another crack at it this week, against the most undisciplined team in the tournament. Even if your club team is a wart on the nose of the game.

    However, because I am a little bit schizo on the issue --

    [​IMG]


    I'm sorry! This one was original and made me laugh!
     
    #56
  17. timmyg

    timmyg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Credit must be given to Rico Clark for buckling down after letting Gerrard run free for England's goal.

    Oh, and I still don't believe Aaron Lennon actually played on Saturday.

    I didn't watch the Slovenia/Algeria game so I have no clue how we'll do, but it really all comes down to Friday.
     
    #57
  18. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Really, Martin... that's why one should read the text around the flashy pictures. The point is the good-natured jabs IN CONTEXT.
    - Dont take it personal, you're not the only one here has a problem doing that.

    Now on to the NEXT context: This group NOW looks anything BUT easy.
    Getting out of the group as runner up.. woop, big deal. You do that to Face Germany.

    Reading all the grousing from ENG fans, I flash on the old saw:

    "A team is greater than the sum of its parts."

    But THEN.. I think about Germany. Seriously which would you rather face in that position.... Italy, Spain or Germany?

    Reality bites! And if somehow the US comes out top of group, a big sigh. But I expect England to do that.

    Which would set up the same scenario, for US, as 2002. We now actually have a better team than that one but so does Germany.
     
    #58
  19. Martin-in-Nashville

    Martin-in-Nashville New Member

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    I dont take anything personal PF it's just that's not how it was yesterday it said from Saturday's paper, being the webmaster I guess you have the ability to change things as and when you like. also I dont believe England is anywhere near good enough to win this world cup and it makes me laugh to think that some on here think USA does.

    But that's OK we all have our opinions, good Luck I hope you qualify for the next stage.
     
    #59
  20. Martin-in-Nashville

    Martin-in-Nashville New Member

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    Smyrna TN
    All is forgiven Rob I know why now?

    England striker Emile Heskey believes the Jabulani World Cup match ball contributed to his bad miss against the United States in Saturday's 1-1 draw.
    Full story: Daily Mail
     
    #60
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