The Middle School League

RE: Re: The Middle School League

I'd say at least one of you need to re-read my posts again. I never advocated closing the league, I never said that I expected anything of the league. I just said some of you kool-aid drinkers need to get REAL, and here in the U.S. the sport will be better for it if you do.

Anyway, I am sure some people on this site are defeinitely tired of this subject, I know I am. MY LAST WORD. :3d footy:

 

Come on, we can make this one go as long as the transfer market topic...last check in the 130's??? haha

My response was a little off cuff and I didn't re-read it really...but I get what you are saying...and dont get me wrong while MLS does frustrate me often, it is the league of my country and i'm glad its here...maybe one day when i'm elderly i'll hear more than just the "soccer community" care about MLS....but if not, it is what is as they say......bring back a team to Tampa or better yet to Orlando!!!!!!

viva la something......

 

oh, but a quick note i totally forgot...Dario Sala is as J. Jameson said in Spiderman
"CRAP....MEGA-CRAP"

 

RE: Re: The Middle School League

FFCinPCB,
I am definitely not sick of this topic. I would actually probably be on your side of this debate. Probably not quite as left as you are about things, but I do not think MLS is the greatest league. However, what I struggle with and from what I can read struggle with is how to make the league better. Do you have any ideas how that can be done?

I am not saying let's make it a league comparable to the Premiership, but what kinds of things can be done from the ground up to make this league and in turn soccer in Americ better? I myself like to bitch about things like MLS and the USMNT, but until I have solutions, I am not doing anyone any good.

Also, if you want to talk about kool-aid drinkers, I think the biggest bunch of kool-aid drinkers are the staunch and avid supporters of the USMNT. While I am disappointed that the US lost in the opening round of the World Cup, there are a number of people, not necessarily on this board, but BigSoccer boards and others I have talked to in person, who really think the US is a major force in World Soccer. For that reason, I was happy to see the US go out.

I hate to break it to them, but they are havin' a laugh. The US has improved over the past ten years, but to say the US is comparable to England, Italy, Brazil, Argentina and other such traditional powers is crazy. The USMNT kool-aid drinkers will give you excuse after excuse and tell you how great this and that player are and it gets really old.

 

RE: Re: The Middle School League

Yeah those that are sniffing the "fun" glue and seriously think that the USMNT will be on par w/ the likes of Italy, England, Aregentina, etc, etc, etc as Willy Wonka says.......BUT, i am happy that people are talking more about U.S. soccer, maybe..ok yes to lofty, but they are defending their soccer and wanting to be proud of it...it is kinda neat that this hopefully is the real beginings of U.S. soccer...while the thoughts are probably misguided...at least people have some concern....While I wasnt happy w/ the U.S. going out, the anger of people w/ the U.S. team was a pleasant surprise b/c i was thinking only the people that knew me and that I loved soccer would give me a hard time...hearing it on t.v., reading in papers...was good to see.....and even my friends from college give me crap about the U.S. team, more than just why do you call it "SAW-KERR".....while they may really be laughing at me, I kinda feel it is they are laughing w/ me...but then..hmm????

Just this whole conversation is good, b/c if we all agreed on the same thing and didn't have our own views to mix in...how BORING would that be.....as always FulhamUSA doing wonders for the beautiful game!!!!

 

RE: Re: The Middle School League

I guess I should rephrase one part of what I said....I did not want the US lose in the World Cup, but one positive aspect of them losing was to shoot down all the kool-aid drinkers who think they are great. I would rather have seen the US advance, but I did not think it was going to happen and it did not happen.


I agree that it is cool to see and hear a lot of people talking about the game and the US team. Hopefully the post-World Cup hangover or long layoff would be better to say, will not make people go away and forget about the team. Let's hope the team learns from this World Cup and they can get better going forward.

 

RE: Re: The Middle School League

Tom has reeled me back in!

Alright, I am not sure anyone has the answers, but the one thing that gets me about the Middle School League is that it and its staunch followers try to promote itself as an equal to the European leagues. I think doing that isolates the MSL and its closest followers from sporting fans in the rest of America (who see that the MSL is an inferior product and then think the kool-aid drinkers are nuts for saying otherwise, which makes them think most soccer fans are dillusional) and unnecessarily penalizes the growth of the game here. If the MSL would follow a more USL approach to the game, I think the game would grow more naturally. Keep the game in smaller stadiums that don't swallow the fans and the game, promote it to families and as an alternative to those disillusioned with the bigger more commercial sports, and open up the stadiums and players to fans. Make the team a part of the community and get the players involved in more high profile activities helping out in the community. Another option is to get local players involved with the team by letting a couple of them become members through try-outs. Also, setting up a relegation system may create the competitive atmosphere many of us European football fans appreciate. I think if you create an attachment to the team within the community and then give them reasons to support their team, through promotion to a higher division or other means, then we could see soccer in the U.S. grow exponentially, and some of the supportive soccer communities could be surprises. The idea that the Charleston Battery could become a Green Bay type of fan community is a pretty neat idea, I think. In sum, I think the MSL needs to pull back and think on a smaller scale before jumping to presumptuous ideas about where it is on the world soccer level. That would allow it to use it resources in a more, well, resourceful manner and would hopefully allow U.S. fans to catch-up with and make an attachment to their nearest or favorite team. I think matches against European teams should definitely continue. And I think there is nothing wrong with U.S. soccer mom's and dad's promoting their promising soccer son to shoot for the stars, and try to play European Football, even if it means a short stint in the Middle School League.

 

RE: Re: The Middle School League

I have to admit I drank some of the USMNT kool-aid, in large part because of nationalistic furvor and over-reacting to our last appearance. It's good that we expect so much from our team, but bad that our record is so up and down at the Cup. We still have a ways to go obviously, and I think a lot of that may be mental now.

 

RE: Re: The Middle School League

For those of you who do go to MLS matches on a regular basis, what is the demographic attending the matches? What is a stereoptypical MLS fan like?

I agree that those who think MLS is on par or even close to being on par with the major European leagues are crazy. That drives me nuts when I hear that. However, watching teams like Celtic and our beloved Fulham lose to the likes of DC United and the Columbus Crew only add fuel to the fire of these fans who think MLS is on par with perhaps at least the Coca-Cola Championship in England.

I do think it is great that there are some very passionate fans of the game. Here in Chicago the "Section 8" group gets rowdy and plays a big part in the Fire matches when at home. I can imagine that other clubs have similar groups that cheer, chant and get into the matches.

I also feel that the soccer-specific stadiums popping up around the league is only helping. Trust me, going from the massive Soldier Field here in Chicago to Toyota Park is a huge and much improved change for the Fire.

A relegation/promotion system would be great, but it is a much more difficult thing to make happen. Owners have to agree to it and with all the money being pumped into said new stadiums, owners do not want a team that is getting relegated.

All in all I do not have the ideas to make MLS the league some envision it can be. I hope the league is successful and I should do a better job of attending Fire matches, but at this point in my life, it is not a priority and I do not see it being one anytime soon. I will attend a few couple matches a season, but until MLS can convince me to make the trip each week and spend my hard earned money, I will stay on the shoulder of the road and let MLS drive on by.

 

i think we are coming to an understanding that none of us know the mythical "key" to success for MLS...if there even is one. Back when Tampa had the Mutiny, it was only when they added musical acts after the game or 4th of July fireworks that a large amount of fans (well music/soccer fans) turned out....occassionally some diehard Yucs fans would come to the Big Sombrero or Ray Jay just to pass the time till NFL season!....but the smaller stadiums, while not always full themselves is the right direction...gives more incentive for everyone in league to keep it going b/c those stadiums were not built for free....at least i dont think they were :lol:

As for me w/ MLS i support it b/c it is the league in our country...i too agree that a USL approach should be followed..i mean they are 20 years in existence...I know some teams have come and gone, but the length of time they have stayed is great....i will admit i'm still abit burned by the MLS dropping Tampa and Miami...i know it was money issue, but seems the USL is finding its way back into Miami w/ a new USL team staring Romario of all people!

To me MLS is like the kid that wants to be part of the cool group in school, and will do whatever at whatever the costs may be to get there... no matter who is in the way....all that matters is getting to be apart of the elite...and MLS needs to remember the friends and help it had in the begining before it ends up getting W.U.S.A. on itself.......

 

All I can say is that the MLS is the reason I am the obsessive soccer fan that I am today. MrsJux and I became season ticket holders of the Crew in 2003 and enjoyed really learning the game. Crew Stadium is a great place to tailgate and meet other fans. The organization is still trying to build the game, so they typically offer a high level of access to the stadium, coaches, and players. They are well known for their USMNT/World Cup Viewing parties (check out the cut-aways from the Ghana Game) and are often a focal point for the Central Ohio Soccer Fan. The Crew’s current record over the past two seasons has really hurt ticket sales, but we still have little problem getting friends to go to matches with us.

While I admit it is not the highest level of soccer out there, I more than enjoy my time watching the MLS games. Yes, there are flaws in the league. The schedule alone, which results in many games played in humid conditions (so as not to go head to head with NFL, NBA, NHL, etc), is far from favorable. It tends to lead to a misconception of watching in-form MLS teams outperform pre-season European teams on friendly tours. I think most fans understand this; they’re just happy to get to see the likes of Barcelona and Celtic without having to travel far. I know there are levels of quality, but I will continue to support the MLS as long as it is in existence.

That being said, following the Crew has led to my: catching Champions League Games on ESPN2, watching US Men’s and Women’s Games, becoming a die-hard Fulham Fan, and upgrading to Digital Cable for the sole purpose of getting Fox Soccer Channel to watch the Cottagers. I used to live for college football and the NFL. Now, I barely watch American Football, and I really don’t miss it. I guess the MLS was a gateway drug for the sport.

 

haha....i like your Law 5 skills Hatter....i would add more but bout to step out and head home from the uni......i 1000% agree w/ your comment about fans of the USMNT or any team...if you dont put all your heart into supporting that team...even when all the odds are against you...where is the fun in that??? I say quarterfinals or better for the U.S. in 2010.... :roll:

 

I hope you have not put me into this way of thinking. I have no problem with die-hard fans supporting MLS teams. Whether it be Jux or any other MLS supporter or USMNT supporter, I think it is great.

In all honesty, I am just trying to figure out how MLS can get the big-time European soccer fan like me to the stadium more than once or twice a season.

I think MLS is a great league and I will watch it on TV if it is on because I love the game. While I admit the quality is not great, it is the US league and I would like to see it succeed.

I guess my beef with the league comes down to the management of it from the top down. Teams are very restricted in buying/selling players and I think that is not right. Perhaps that has been done to prevent the league from going under, but after eleven seasons now, I would like to see that go away.

I think it would be interesting to see how MLS teams would fare in the transfer market trying to get bigger players if they were not so hamstrung by the tiny salary cap.

America as we all know is a great place and a lot of footballers and such want to vacation here in the States. If the pay scale was better and the league allowed for more money to be spent, you never know what kind of a league could grow.

 

I agree Tom. The salary cap was definitely in place to ensure the financial security of the league and to prevent another Cosmos team that unbalanced things. The salary cap is only losely in place right now, since some teams have a few players like Donovan that seem to be outside the cap.

Granted, teams like LA and New York would find it easier to attract the bigger stars (unless Ronaldo suddenly becomes a Buckeye Fan), but I think it might be time to change the pay scale.

 

And the band played on as the ship went down.

Don ~ True, that was part of the initial post. I think it can be counterproductive to put lipstick on a pig and call her a beauty queen. It's still a pig.

Now before some of you go flying off the handle, let me explain that I begrudge no one their experience of supporting their team. But when you try to tell me your MSL team can compete with the European leagues, you are insulting the European leagues, thier players, thier fans, those American players who know that playing in the European leagues is part of reaching their goal and living their dream, and quite a few people's intelligence.

So all you MSL fans get out there and scream your tonsils off, and I hope your team and your league do well, but don't compromise the future of U.S. soccer by saying it provides a level of play on par with European football, which quite a few of them do.

I am much more of an advocate for stronger soccer players from the U.S., then a stronger soccer league, but I would gladly support both. However, the current system is not working and I partly blame those in the U.S. soccer community who will not acknowledge that what we provide and promote professionally in the U.S. is not at an acceptable level for comparing or competing with European football. I'm not bashing, I'm concerned.

 

European developmental players would be a nice addition. I think that might boost interest and respectability here and abroad for the U.S. League, and boost interest here for the European leagues. That is definitely a movement worth promoting.

 

I think your basing your opinions off some sort of false caricature of the "MLS fan". It depends what you mean by "European leagues". If you mean EPL, La Liga, Seri A, League One, ect., then yeah were inferior. But there are a lot more leagues in Europe than the top ones. I as a MLS fan will continue to say what I have said in this thread. We are on par with third tier Euro leagues such as Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland. FFC in PCB do you disagree with me on that?

Very few people MLS fans or not would tell you that MLS is on par with EPL, La Liga, ect. In fact I've never spoken to anyone who thought such things.

Sorry mate but if anyone is being detrimental to the future of American soccer it’s you. If you want to constructively criticize MLS and discuss how to improve it than fine but these continuing slander attacks of the league help no one.