Pelosi Screws the House Vote

So far.. the vote is 205-228 nay

Dem 2-1 for, GOP 1-2 against and nays by 20votes.

And the Dow is tanking.... rotating around -500, light trading, though.

@#$@#$@!$@$@#!

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Boehner says he had the votes lined up. Then Pelosi opened her mouth.
He said 12 members switched to 'nay'.

I missed her kickoff speech. But it doesnt surprise me a bit that that fucking bitch had to politicize it.

I'm gonna post it here when I can get it.

You remember on the weekend... Someone 'forgot' to invite GOP to a meeting. Then Pelosi said they were "Unpatriotic" for not showing up.

UPDATE - Here's what turned the GOP vote over:
Pelosi Part 1

Pelosi Part 2

 

"screws" implies that passing this measure would've been a good thing. I'm not convinced it would have been.

 

Neither was I. But I'll take the word of a broad view of people. The citizens were GREATLY against it..

May I remind you that it was supposed to be bipartisan, at least for this vote.

So now Nancy, at this moment, is praising all the DEMS including FRANK. Who is largely to blame.

"We must work in a bipartisan manner' Then STFU!
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Dammit, Don.... why dont you WATCH HER SPEECH nad tell me exactly why Republicans should eat her shit and then vote in her favor?

Go ahead .... just keep it up.

You dont give a fuck about anything except for seeing your side win and blaming Dubya. JUST LIKE NANCY

YOu think I'm PISSED? YOU're FUCKING RIGHT!

And now Barney fucking Frank is covering his own ass:

"So you're telling me they got their feelings hurt and they hurt the country?"
- you arent funny you asshole!

Rahm Emanuel: Same thing.

"Why dont they eat our shit and vote Yay."

Just so you understnad. It wouldnt have bothered me, and proabbly not those who changed their votes, either.. if one of the other Dem pre-vote speakers had given Nancy's shit-sandwich speech.

But it wasnt just somebody. It was the Speaker of the House saying EAT MY SHIT AND LIKE IT!


Anyone who knows the least thing about human nature could figure it out!

 

Lemme just vent something else... where the fuck do you get off, coming on here in a thread about this vote, which I ASSUME we both wanted to pass to avoid a possible economic meltdown and start in... just like Pelosi.. enumerating everyone's sins of the past!

I have my own view of that, as I know you know, and I can back it up. But I've been explaining in several threads and places just how important it was to pass and we can argue about the 'who did what's' later.

The fact you come on here and spin it as 'Republican had valid concerns' doesnt matter. Their concerns dont matter for this vote. My ecomiomic views dont matter for this vote. The only thing that was important was it would put a measure of confidence in the markets.

Because, just like politics, the markets have an emotional quotient. Will the smart traders see that the sky isnt falling, I dont know.

But the Point is we could have had a deal to maybe stop-gap panic and now we dont.... just so the worst Speaker in History in the worst Congress in history could make points for SOMEONE!

 

This thing has me flummoxed to no end. I abhor the unheard of control placed in an unelected official, yet, Mr. Buffet has expressed his concern if the bill wasn't passed and I respect him more than any living being when it comes to money matters. I imagine some of you have read this already, but if you're concerned, bored, or merely need a sedative, read the proposed-bill.

http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files ... 68_xml.pdf

I keep trying to get through it, but this damn work thing keeps getting in the way. But who knows, I may not have to worry about this working thing much longer?!?

 

If the Republicans can't get beyond Pelosi possibly pushing their buttons, they have much bigger problems. Or is it a much smaller problem, individually?

 

Relax, they'll put together a better package and the market will recover upon it's announcement. It's already bounced back a little from the initial low.

Then again, you're the self-proclaimed resident econ genius, panic if you prefer.

Either way.....BOTH sides are playing politics with this and to argue otherwise is naive at best.

 

I never said I was an Econ Genius. I got a 'C' in 101. But it doesnt take genius, does it? Or does it?

I know I've lived through one {or 1 1/2} of these. Better hope to hell all the trading houses have their programmed trading turned off and Securities Analysts are making the decisions. I do believe that's the case as they said the trading volume was lighter than you'd expect.

If the software was running it, we'd already be in financial hell.

Now this has gone to politics as a theme.

Let there be no doubt, I think.... and a lot of those Republicans think.. the best thing would be to just let those financial houses who bought and sold all that junk crash and burn. Send those execs to prison.

That would solve this problem for at least a decade.

 

Doesnt have a fucking thing to do with 'trickle down' economics PERIOD!

DOES have to do with zealous populist HUD priorities in pushing mortgages to those who cant keep paying them WHILE the housing market is superheated by artificial market forces in the mortgage industry. And yes, Dubya's as much at fault for that as Clinton.

But it ALSO DOES have to do with head-up the ass avoidance of warnings from the conservative side and denial by Dodd, Frank with a nervous sideglance toward the Congressional Black Caucus.

You're not an idiot... you have your fingers dead on what's what with any soccer thread I've ever read. The only conclusion I can draw is you dont believe in the markets.. even Government Supervised markets. Thus I have to conclude you're some kind of socialist, by economic bent.
I'm a Neo-Con... WTF are you?
Just come out and say it so we dont have to go over and over this Bush-Wa crap.

Dems STILL blaming Bush on TV... Saying the Repubs are letting down their own constituents. If that's right, then how does this cottonmouth explain the 20-1 protest against. This was the time that those close to the issue have to make the hard decisions.
Tell me this you Dem assholes. If you control congress and are doing the right things and Bush is so awful why is he approval-rated 15% higher than you are?

 

That's right Don... my lack of education is showing.

I havent been indoctrinated PROPERLY

Excuse me, I had to - rather, decided to- read up and decide for myself, rather than fawn over some ass like the idiots I had in college. They didnt even make sense when I was liberal.

What you DIDNT say there is that all major enterprises and corporate entities should be state owned.

 

Congress SUCKS!!! It's infuriating to see politics when our economy is tanking. It's infuriating to see blaming when there is plenty of it to go around. It's infuriating to see Nancy Pelosi blaming the Bush Administration when they tried to get congress to regulate Mae and Mac years ago, as did Greenspan. It is just plain lying to paint Barney F. Frank as some sort of fast-acting hero when he blocked the legislation to reign in Mae and Mac to begin with. Also, the major banking deregulation legislation was passed in 1998 - before Bush, but by a Republican Congress.

I'm not saying Bush doesnt deserve his share of blame - it's happening on his watch after all. He also bragged about US home ownership being higher than ever not so long ago and I see that as a symptom of this crisis. But I havent seen him on TV whining about how nobody did what he asked them to do. I see him trying to address the issue. Meanwhile Congress plays politics, as always they apparently veiw their re-election as paramount to any responsibility they owe the American people.

And you know what, while all this blaming is going on why dont we blame the American people - buying and buying on credit, buying what they cant afford, and expecting something for nothing. It's sick and we (I mean our culture not me because I dont owe anyone a cent) deserve what we get. There is no free lunch and there never has been. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore :wink:

 

I'll tell you why we dont blame the american people, Mo. It's because they dont have time to read and investigate deeply and determine when they are being lied to.

Especially when it comes to mortgages on the biggest deal they will ever make. They have to assume that those pushing those mortgages want them to be able to pay them back. And up until recently that's what the loan officer did.

But something happened, starting 30 years ago, which set the ball rolling towards the easy mortgage credit. It created a new model for housing credit and seemed to work really well.. so congress kept fooling with it to make it even more utilized.

Then financial instruments were created so that those loans that were seen as 'risky' could be distributed along with sound loans and every bank and investment house could share the risk load. Still all well and good. It was voluntary after all and a wise funds manager would make sure that their company wasnt overexposed in case of a severe economic crisis.

It was about this time that the person counseling the buyer no longer cared whether or not the buyer could pay. Their job was to put through as many loans as possible. That loan was not going to be held at the local bank, or even administered by a local bank. It was in some far away place.

Of course, if you're not changing and advancing you're falling back and every so many years and administrations there was someone who wanted to make sure no one was left out of the American dream so somehow regulations were forged that FORCED loan offerers to write more and more risky loans.
Now, if you wanted to play in the pool at all you had to play all the games, and you didnt get to make up your own rules.

So more and more risky loans... more people thought they could get away with being house-poor a few years and when that ARM came time to uptick, they'd have the money/income to refinance.

OR when that balloon payment which was the stick to that low interest 5 year loan came due, they'd just get a new one.. or a different loan.

All this time, demand is overheating the housing market and prices are getting out of hand.
Meantime, the pool of available house hunters with any credit worthiness at all ran out just at the same time.

So while I certainly think that companies whose product is money speculation should go broke, what some dont seem to understand is that those are creatures of the problem. Not the cause of it.

There wouldnt have been a need to trade in those junk mortgage security packages if there wasnt so much junk.

 

Wow, I just got home and saw this. I'm shocked. Can't believe this.

 

Just for perspective since you won't hear it from the chicken little media and their "Record Point Drop In The Market" headlines:

1987 - 22% drop
2008 - less than 8% drop

Not nearly as catastrophic as many made it out to be. Make no mistake, Washington does need to react, but rushing into printing up $700B with a bill that kept getting add-ons faster than people could read the damned thing is the equivalent of kicking the can down the road. Here's a novel thought for Washington, think beyond the next election cycle when trying to develop a solution.

When the politicians who voted no today came out and explained why they voted no without playing the blame game (not many of those, btw), there were some very good reasons for not passing this thing. Lack of judicial review, lack of enforcement and the powers given Paulson being chief among them. Of course there's always the "other alternative" side of insuring the loans instead of a massive bailout. Insuring them would purportedly cost the govt drastically less.

We'll see what the market does tomorrow.

 

True on the % drop. And market futures {another of the money speculators} are up.
But what remains murky about this is the effect on credit. It doesnt look good there and many claim the flow of working capital is locked up

It turns out that Pelosi evidently didnt care too much whether or not the thing passed, there was no arm twisting on the Dem side and she specifically released many of her friends to vote no. The Dems win either way.

 

I'm pretty angry about this thing myself. Unfortunately, however, I understand our economy enough to understand why this bailout plan, however painful and undesirable, was NECESSARY. While I acknowledge that most Americans are against the bailout plan, I believe that most Americans don't understand the economy well enough to make an informed decision on the subject.

Let me put it in terms easier to understand: unless something SIGNIFICANT is done very very soon, we will see unemployment, nationwide, exceed 10% within 6 months. Both Corporate America and American small businesses need credit in order to operate; there are whole sectors of the marketplace that make 65% of their revenue in the 4th quarter and use the rest to time focused on creating new products to sell. Without the ability to get a line of credit, they will have to cut cost (i.e., employees), resulting in them having fewer new products to sell, resulting in more cuts, etc. Plus, as company's fold, new entrapeurs will be unable to get the credit needed to start new businesses. 10% unemployment in 6 months; we could see 15% in 12.

We're about to hit a major recession that could be prevented by some GOP Congresmen being men enough to admit that trickle down economics and de-regulation isn't always the right answer.