Palin Exposed!!!!

Palin stubs toe, again

First it was on a reference to pol huckster in chief using 'retard'.. now it's on an obtuse apparent 'trap' set up by 'Family Guy':

Family Guy goaded Palin into a mistake

AMEN!!!!! She, of course, means peoples' stupidity. Glad it isnt just me, tho I never thought it was.

 

Well, from my perspective, it should be the finish line for American involvement; I don't see a lasting peace happening there without a constant foreign military presence and that's just one of the reasons I didn't want us going in in the first place.

 

Truly understandable and valid.
Now, would you care to comment that the alternative to providing the relatively educated and western oriented Iraqi's a chance at some form of self-governance would be to force them to do it on their own?

Wouldnt the BEST principle to do that be to remove the emigration safety valve?
Some believe that the entire middle east should be isolated and they should be forced to settle up their own political debts rather than voting with their feet.

One extreme balances the other extreme.. which do you find to be the best answer?

Because we have long seen the dangers of trying to follow a middle course.
If we didnt allow middle easterners in we wouldnt have had 9/11. Why should we have to pay for their backwardness?

Why do we have to pretend that Islam is a 'peaceful' religion when anyone who reads the Koran knows the truth. HAve you read it? I tried in the seventies.. I had to quit.

 

First, the Koran is about as peaceful as the Old Testament; Islam's biggest problem is its lack of centralized doctrinal leadership - individual Imams have the freedom to interpret the Koran as they desire; there's no body to come out and officially say, "This statement in the Koran means X; it should not be taken to imply Y."

My preferred solution for Iraq is on a boat that's already sailed. I would have preferred a "beneficent dictator", someone who would rule absolutely, but would rule with integrity. The strong central leadership would provide the control and stability needed to develop the country, develop the economy, at the grass roots level. Democracy was never intended for the everyman in an agrarian society (even the USA didn't do it that way); successful Democracy depends upon an educated populace and a strong and stable middle class. We should have built that middle class before even thinking about introducing Democracy. Now, we've just given every Imam with a voice a loyal block of voters and therefore a say in the government, even if just as a negative stakeholder.

At this point, after we leave, they'll be a LOT of fighting, and we just have to hope that whoever wins appreciates the efforts we made to make things better for the Iraqi people. If not, we'll be wishing we had Saddam back.

 

Wow! Can I kill a thread, or what!?

 

What.....
sorry
I was distracted by a nutjob in a low flying Cherokee.


Point about Old Testament and Koran. Seemingly equally bloodthirsty and judgemental. But on further reading...
Then there's New Testament. Notwithstanding Christian STILL went through the 'jihad phase' ... centuries ago.

And farmers used coop paradigm, not central planned.

 

No way! I appreciated reading your post. What you said about Islam not having centralized doctrinal leadership is interesting and makes sense. I'm too ingorant on matters of religion to add much.

 

Well, except that any Centralized leadership has its limitations.

Not sure it would really affect the middle eastern bunch, because the Vatican couldnt stop misuse of doctrine in Christian exploration and expansion. And doesnt to this day.
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Back to Palin, re: her complaint to family guy using down syndrome:
A good response from the Down Syndrome actress herself!

I generally agree. I have a Down Syndrome first cousin. But Palin carrying Trig around with her only smacks of opportunism if you want it to.

Otherwise just says an integral part of life.
If Trig is trotted out to the podium once he's walking, that's different.

 

Back when it took months for communications to get from the Vatican to the local Bishops, that was the case. Heck, half of the New Testament is letters from the central leadership (the 12) to the outposts of Christianity in an attempt to correct their doctrinal misdeeds.

Now, though, in an era of instant communication, even in the poorer and less developed nations in which most of the followers of Islam live, having a centralized leadership and doctrinal authority does make a difference.

I'm Mormon, so can give them as an example. Every Mormon chapel across the world (including those in heavily Muslim nations) teaches from the same Sunday School manual each year (translations notwithstanding). You can travel from chapel to chapel across the world and expect to receive the lesson that follows the one you received the prior week (this won't be the case 100% of the time due to regional meetings, but you won't be off by more than 2 lessons). When major questions of doctrine come up, headquarters publishes their ruling on the matter. If anyone feels that correct doctrine is not being taught in their local congregation, they are avenues for reporting that and action is taken to resolve it.

Islam is almost a polar opposite. They have no centralized administrative or doctrinal leadership. Individual Imams are free to teach what they want without any real overriding authority, except perhaps at the local level (i.e., Ayatollahs in Iran have some authority over local Imams).

The Roman Catholic church is centralized, but with delegated authority to regional leadership. Other Christian denominations are often loosely aligned but regionally independent.

In government terms,
LDS church (Mormons) is a Strong Central government
Roman Catholic Church is a Federal system
Other Christian Denominations are a Confederate system
Islam is a Feudal system

Just like in the Middle Ages, where the timbre of a people was determined by the character of their individual leader, today in Islam the timbre is determined by the character of the individual Imams. Until a strong central leadership is implemented, this will continue.

 

That's a good philosophical treatise, Andy.
But it doesnt address the problem.

How many missionaries in the Middle East and in what countries? Sure, that's to feudal societies but how do we address the equivalent of a trickling but significant corollary to Pentacostalists invading Utah, specifically SLC and Provo?

Wax philosophical all you want but a clear and present danger.

 

I'm not sure I follow. The feudal/federal/etc comments were more making a parallel being the organization/approach of each religion rather than about the actual governments in which the members reside.

Could you explain this one, "...how do we address the equivalent of a trickling but significant corollary to Pentacostalists invading Utah, specifically SLC and Provo?"

SLC is only 30% Mormon and Mormons have always been the target of many Christian denominations. Provo, OTOH, is 'Happy Valley', 98% Mormon and a "bubble", even by Mormon standards.

The only 'Clear and Present Danger' that I see is that, unless the senior Moderate Islamic clergy step up and organize themselves and establish Islam as a Religious Organization, not just loose set of beliefs, the reputation of the Koran and the entire religion will continue to be sullied by the actions of a few extremists.

Mormons had to deal with the fallout of the Polygamists compounds of the FLDS Church, but we could at least point to the fact that they were a rogue offshoot, full of excommunicated Mormons (where they had ever been members at all), and not acting within the doctrines of the 13 million member LDS church. Islam has no such "out"; even between Sunni and Shiite, there are extremists in both sects so those extremists are viewed as "representative" of the whole.

 

None. We have a center in Jerusalem, but are not permitted to proselyte by the Israeli government. We do, however, have a strong presence in Indonesia, which is home to 13% of the global Muslim population (only 20% of Muslims live in the Middle East). We have a strong presence in West and South Africa, as well.

 

Why I specifically mentioned Provo

And you are right.. problem is that is happening far too little. There's the danger of Muslims having their heads excommunicated.

I have an Islamic 'center' 45 miles from me. Not just a mosque, btw.
Their executive claims they arent radical, of course. But that's always a question.. since it's acceptable to lie to the unbeliever to protect the faith.

If not accepted generally, then by dint of fatwa.

 

I just find it humorous that the my comment about Islam generated more ire/conversation than the primary point of my post: my preferred approach for Iraq. Not complaining really, just really surprised.

 

Ire?

How is pointing out facts, ire? The prime poison for Iraq, at the moment, is the return of Imam the Ugly's influence. I guess we could agree on that.

 

No need for a joke here...

I was looking to add a funny picture of some future GOP superstar... 2 seconds of searching got me here...

http://www.gop.com/index.php/learn/future_leaders/

I'm still giggling.

 

RE: No need for a joke here...

Where ya bin, smokin'.. smokin?

That's freakin pathetic, sorta like as if it was astroturf

 

Where ya been smokin'? Glad to see you back

 

The title of this thread can be rather deceiving...political discussion abounds and I expected photos.

 

Here's some photos:
Olby v Max Headroom - separated at Manufacture?

Comments are great