Obama statements troubling

First.. I see no damn reason why we should spend more than a 'hmmmmm' moment on who endorses who. whether it's Farrakhan endorsing Obama or some RW televangelist endorsing McCain. Both candidates positions on the BACKGROUNDS of those are long stated. ie, it doesnt bother me even IF Obama is a 'secret muslim sympathizer'. {It's only WHAT Muslim positions he takes}

THE real problems we are seeing arise from his pandering to the 'PUBLIC' on both NAFTA and the 'vote for the war'. In both cases he made statements that were false, on NAFTA he seemed to call for repudiation and full renegotiation and this would cause us DEEP problems with Canada, which might really disrupt our trade with our sister country. For instance, Canada has a trade pledge that we get 'first refusal' on their oil sales.
CTV stands by their position that Obama's campaign called the Canadian Government to warn they were going to make the statement as 'Campaign Rhetoric'.
In the other statement he says that Sen Jay Rockefeller, unlike Hillary, voted against the Iraq motion. This is disputed by numerous sources, indeed there's links to JR speaking FOR the war motion.

No one should think that Obama is speaking from FIRST HAND knowledge on either..The core of the problem is Obama's support staff and advisors. Same as his foreign policy wonks, which ALSO are problematical.

They seem to lie or spin with impunity, even passing Clinton's cynical stances, IMO

So WHERE is the 'Change'?

 

The Republicans kill people?

 

Republicans don't kill people, Republicans who are Commander in Chief kill people.

I don't know why I said this on this thread, because I am Republican and support Bush...it just sounded funny, and may hold a little truth.

 

You compared Republicans ("American right-wing") to Trotsky and Goebbels. Trotsky and Goebbels were leaders of countries where they murdered, by the thousands, their political opponents.

It is irresponsible to compare either of the two American parties to Russian Communists or German Nazis.

Don't play stupid Don.

 

Don,

They are Republicans. You can't just pick and choose who is and who isn't a Republican. All the guys on the radio are Republicans. The "American right-wing" falls under Republican.

Democrats have the same problem when it comes to groups like Code Pink and Dennis Kucinech (sp?).

NOBODY IN AMERICA KILLS PEOPLE OVER POLITICS!!! So don't compare it to the Soviets or the Nazis.

What about our history, and why we are different from Russia and Germany, do you not understand?

 

So you're saying when abortion clinics are bombed and people are killed, that isn't over politics? When presidents are assassinated that isn't over politics? When protesters riot and people are left dead in their wake that isn't over politics? When vigilantes protect the borders from Mexicans illegally trying to enter the country and end up dead that isn't over politics?

While it is obviously not on the same scale as the Soviets or the Nazis, you cannot say that NOBODY in American kills people over politics. It does happen, and it probably happens more than we all realize.

 

When has a Republican or Democratic administration ever murdered its political opponents? That is what I'm talking about. YES, political figures have been murdered, but hardly ever in an organized manner. Normally it is an individual who is solely responsible for their own actions, i.e., abortion clinic murders and pretty much every political assassination in U.S. history (save maybe JFK where it might have been a group of people).

Nonetheless, it is obtuse and ignorant to compare American politicians to the likes of Trotsky and Goebbels.

Fucking think people, fucking think.

 

Trotsky was assassinated in Mexico before Stalin began his "reign of terror"- so you can't accuse him of killing millions of people (although one can argue he was behind the thousands who died in the Bolshevik Revolution). You can accuse him of being a propagandist and part of the machine that put the Soviets in power...but he's no Stalin.

Not a Trotsky sympathizer, mind you...but I want to make sure you don't confuse your evil, murderous dictators with political masterminds

Back to current events in American politics...

 

Trotsky wasn't Stalin, but he was in charge of the Soviet Army during the Revolution and during the 1920's. I'm pretty sure political opponents were killed or sent to Siberia during that time, but not on the grand scale that came later (including the murder of Trotsky himself).

As far as the Soviets go, he was probably one of the "better" individuals. Kind of like Deng Xiaopeng in China.

 

Yeah- I guess we can agree that Trotsky is in the upper echelon of evil world leaders

 

We do, we do.

 

Context is an amazing tool in the English language ... and one of the most misunderstood.

 

Here is my troubling statement by Obama. This quote is from an email I recieved from a former mayor of my city who is spearheading the support for his campaign in our area. She is reporting on a townhall type meeting that he had in a local suburb of Cleveland this past weekend.

Okay, all the important things that will bring back jobs to Ohio. That will help stimulate the economy and reverse the foreclosure crisis. Stressing literature and art is not going to do it. Oh and music, that Rock n Roll hall of Fame has been a big financial boon for Cleveland. Where's the math and science Obama? Hardly a month goes by that I dont hear about how the US lags most of the developed world when it comes to numbers entering and test scores in math and science. That $4000 college credit; how about making that for students majoring in math, science, engineering, or a techical trade. Tell me Obama, how is literature and art and music going to keep us competitive in the 21st century? They might provide some jobs in Paris, Manhattan London, and Hollywood, but they wont do much for Ohio.

 

Wait, this thread was about Obama?

Thats some good information Mo, thanks for posting it. I agree with you to a very large extent, highly specialized jobs such as science, and engineering, and the technical trades come from highly specialized educations that should be encouraged and supplemented because they are the most costly.

We shouldn't completely abandon the arts, as they are important as well, however more emphasis should be put on the skills that are the most important to the nation and its struggling economy.

I won't even begin to speculate what subjects and skills those are because I myself do not know. For all I know they may be the arts, but hopefully somebody intelligent figures this out and can explain it rather than proclaiming it.

 

I agree with you... but I bet that statement comes from the fact that "No Child Left Behind" focused on reading and math, and the teachers' unions (Democrat supporters) argue funding was taken away from english, history, and the like.

It's also just a good liberal line to talk about his appreciation for literature, music and the arts.

 

Faint praise.. THEN damnation for commenting MY VIEW on what's IMPORTANT while TOTALLY ignoring.. no, MISS-STATING.. my point so you can bash me for SOMETHING!
Let me make it PERFECTLY CLEAR... USING POPULIST PROPAGANDA!

No...I think it's Goebbels toasting you!