MLS's Insistance on Snuffing Out Dreams

Good call, Heather.

I don't advocate killing the MSL either. Just knocking them down a few pegs. Make them realize their actual place in the grander scheme.

 

There it is again, What the heck did MLS ever do to make you think they needed 'taken down a few pegs'?

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: Free the Conrad One!

I wonder how Conrad feels about the possibility of moving to Norway? If he'd like to leave and a great offer comes in, he should be allowed to go....but he's under contract. MLS has the final say. I'm not sure how long his contract extends, but he can play it out and move on....besides I see the MLS a stepping stone for US players.

 

Think about all of the things that make Fulham the most Genuine, Uniquely Fantastic Football Clubs in the world.

Now think about what makes the Columbus Crew attractive.

The MSL can not manufacture these things. They can not put the teams in an incubator to speed up the process. They can not buy it.

The M-L-S, more importantly the teams, and even more importantly the cities, the fans, the CLUBS have to earn it.

Otherwise, the risk of belittling what has taken over a century to mold, grow, create is far too great. I, personally, would rather see the organic growth of America's round football. Grow with community, grow with years, grow with the families, become what Fulham, Luton Town, and others have become to those who breathe the air and bleed the blood of their CLUB.

It can happen. But it cannot happen in a hurry.

 

Your right. It can happen over time. However, I believe that requires some of America's best players to stay in MLS and become stars for their teams here instead of going abroad. Landon Donovan is a great talent and I'm glad he's in LA to help build up the star power/quality level in MLS; but he's the anamoly when other key players go abroad - Clint Dempsey going to Fulham being the most recent one to go.

Would we be talking about Fulham if the team just let some of their top players ever just go whenever someone "bigger" makes an offer? I know it happens and I'm not calling for a limit; but MLS has every right to not sell a player anymore than a team doesn't. What's more, great players bring in fans to cheer for the team.

If it wasn't for Martin Brodeur and Scott Stevens, I would not be an ardent New Jersey Devils fan - those two guys were guys I loved watching when I was younger and are big reasons why I love watching hockey and the Devils to this day. How can people here latch on to a MLS team if all their best players just get bought up? Believe it or not, it takes more than just being "the local soccer team" to become a fan for a lot of people. And unlike pretty much all the England teams, MLS is a mere 11 years old - the tradition isn't there yet.

Guys like Conrad and Joseph and many others staying in MLS can build said tradition.

 

Oh.. what a coincidence!

PCB, Meet Fulham Adam, Adam...PCB!

:twisted:

 

I'd compare MLS teams to teams being in the lower leagues in England. They will have to keep fighting up for quite some time, amd miss out on some very good talent in the interim, but if lucky, good, and supported by a commited local market, maybe, just maybe, they can some day play with the big boys.

Stand up, and sing!!!!

 

I am going to break it down simply, you support the badge on the shirt, not the players that wear the shirt. I could honestly care less that three Americans are on Fulham. I am sure a good number of people on this site support Fulham because of the Americans, but I am not one of them. If Fulham had no Americans, I would still support this team.

Back to the question at hand......if people like soccer, they are going to latch on to their local team. If they do not like it, they will NOT go to the matches. It is that simple.

I hate to say this, but the success of MLS is not based on the current crop of supporters, it is based on what the league can do to attract more people to the matches. Homegrown talent is good to have, but let's face it, the average sports fan MLS wants to get to the matches does not know who Clint Dempsey is or Oguchi Onyewu is. These are household names to us, but to others, those names mean nothing to them and therefore will not draw people to stadiums as you might think they do.

If you a small club in a small league as all MLS teams are, selling is a part of the business. Hell, Fulham is one of the smaller clubs in arguably the largest league in the world, but they are still considered a "selling" club. I am not proposing MLS sell all its best players, but a system needs to be set up to make the league more attractive to homegrown players and international players. Unfortunately, more money is needed to make that happen and at this point, that does not seem likely to happen anytime soon.

Bottom line is this, I am a Chicago Fire supporter. I will support the team no matter who is on it. I do not go to the matches much, if at all, during a season, but I will still watch them on TV and go once in a while to the matches no matter who is on. MLS needs to figure out a way to make the MLS experience worthwhile for fans to come out and take a match in. How they do that is a good question I can't answer right now.

 

**** On consideration, I have to give this the OST* award of the month.****

1. It hasnt been proven that Conrad's situation is any different than if his contract were actually held by KC.
- The ONLY ACTUAL difference is that other MLS clubs might have the right of first refusal, should KC decide Conrad is for sale.

2. It hasnt been proven that MLS overprices its players to keep them in the league.
- the transfer history when reviewed seems to actually say otherwise. McBride was priced at 3 million before he signed his LAST MLS contract. And then he went to Fulham at about 1.5.... which Coleman calls the best deal in recent Premiere League acquisitions.

3. The idea that any player is 'held' as an indentured servant is suspect, as an MLS player has the same options as a player in any other league. He may opt out of re-signing and go free-agent, again same as anyone else.

4. The idea that any team in the Scandinavian Leagues is a step up from an MLS team has not been proven.
- Especially for a player who has now established his national team credentials.
- In fact, I submit that a transfer to even the top team in Norway would be no better, and possibly inferior, to a transfer to Galaxy or DC United if you are only talking about elevating the player's profile.
- There have been any number of players who have elected to go to Scandi leagues, in lieu of MLS... never to be heard from again, once Yanks Abroad loses interest.

The supposed 'Secret MLS Agenda' concept, in fact, is laughable the more you think about it... was it MLS that brought Landon Donovan back?
I........ Dont..... THink ..... So!!!!!!
In fact for MOST of us, it was embarrassing for MLS because the casual observer, reading only the headlines and first paragraph might think it was due to some league meddling. Which, once you get to know the story is far from true.

Thus...

* One Silly Thread - only awarded to debate on Soccer/Futbol

But PCB trudges on.. MLS='Lower Leagues'.

Again unable to be proven... and no, not because of friendlies or all Star games, they mean little as a metric. But there IS evidence that MLS is about at the level of the championship.

That refers to a fair number of players brought in from 2nd division teams in Europe and who have had to back in order to play, because they simply cant play on this level.

That also brings to mind Universidad Catolica bringing up their reserve players for friendlies with MLS clubs to teach their starry eyed players a lesson.... uh, no, before you ask -after the half, the MLS club has guys on the pitch you never saw before just to keep it interesting

 

I would say comparing MLS to the Coca-Cola Championship is fairly accurate. I think it would be very interesting to throw the MLS teams in the mixer with the rest of the current CCC teams and see how they fared. I think a good number of them would hold their own.

 

You have your MLS blinders on all the time, Monsieur Petit.

I was not comparing quality, but quantity. As in time in the league and having to battle their way up, with the fans, over years if not decades to establish themselves with some legitimacy.

There could have been a Premiership Club that was created and rose to power in the last 15 years (Chelscum?), but I am not aware of it, nor do I think they would have the type of following Clubs that have been around for over a centruy currently have. To me, there are no short-cuts, as much as our fast food, drive-thru mentality would like there to be.

I think if MLS would focus on creating something more genuine, even if on a smaller scale in the beginning and then work towards earning a reputation of competitiveness (Fulham?), you then start creating the type of fan base Tom and others are looking and hungry for.

 

Now let me get this straight:

What this comes down to, and it's nothing unique... as I've heard it since 96, the MLs product is inferior and it will be until they start acting like a 'Big League' in the following ways:

1. It has salary capping and most players are paid a pittance, thus there's no way the league can draw the high profile names it needs to be a success, thus the owners need to bite the bullet and buy good talent

2. There needs to be relegation/promotion in order to incent owners to acquire the best talent in order to stay up.

3. Until it does the above things and the league demonstrates it wants to compete with the best on the world stage, I cant be bothered to buy a ticket.

Now if those taken together seem reasonable to you, I cant understand why you are a Fulham fan.

As long as we continually downgrade and berate what the MLS has to offer right now, then how will we ever build the fan base and interest needed to be successful?

As long as some of us look at talent as not fulfilled until they LEAVE the league, then whats the use of even having a league?
- When a league exercises the least effort to contractually retain the best talent for domestic interest, then we cry:
MLS's Insistance on Snuffing Out Dreams
It seems to me there's ONE fan standard for teams like Fulham, and another for those teams or leagues that are trying to get there.

 

One more time...i laid out some very specific points in the previous posts, which you disregarded in favor of your unsupported dogma... either argue the facts or keep your 'feelings' acknowledged as 'feelings'.

Once is all well and good... to keep arguing the same thing, while not able to address my points is rather ... ummm...

 

IN all seriousness, please number your questions, and I will reply in kind. For the sake of balance, please refrain from spinning your own rhetoric into the questions.

I will answer each and every question, and put an end to your straw man tactics.

 

My 'Straw Men':

 

First... thanks for finally answering those issue items... though i thought..

was rather ironic; as the whole thread started on some rather spectacular rhetoric and spin:

At least you put some logic into the response for a change.

Never mind it's wrong and there was NO growth at all in the existing leagues, sinace NASL folded, until MLs started the try at rebuilding.

As to those being 'my opinion' esp on the subject of Norsk, yes it is... but derived from watching yanks go there. In fact, watch Big Soccer boards the next time someone picks them over MLS... and enjoy the hootin hollerin, and beer spitting. And it aint cause these guys think MLS is the be-all end-all.

Now as to the core argument...MLS being the big bad single entity corp monolith. That is no more so than any other of the pro sport leagues -- whether or not, they administer player contracts.

for example, how do you regard the Prem's player nationality/green card restrictions?

Whether it's for a good reason or not, it's still restraint.

 

The player restrictions are not the Prem leagues, they are the UK immigration restrictions.

As an aside, the restriction, even if it was imposed by the prem, would be a good one as you don't want to fill your league with cheap mediocre imports at the expense of potentially better home grown talent.

A leagues should prevent average talent being imported, when a player comes from abroad he should offer something that is not available in that league.

The prem league is not controlled by a single company, but by 3-4 powerhouses of football, the prem league itself, David Dien and the Arse, Man U and the FA. The slight bluring of power means that occasionally the right decisions are made, normally for the wrong reasons!

The MSL suffers from the traditional constraints of US sports, where the franchise system allows a club to be moved and deposited (did the Earthquakes do this or is that a different sport?). One of the key values of football is community ownership. It also prevents relegation and promotion.

Also it is a benefit as it prevents clubs from going out of business, or becoming uncompetitive due to financial constraints.

I am not sure that altering the model of ownership would help as the mindset to sports businesses is ingrained in US culture, even if a club was owned outright by an individual they would still behave like a franchise, without the benefits.

The MSL is still in its infancy, a post earlies said that playing top flight in Norway was not better than playing in the MSL - I would disagree, but not due to the quality of the football. I think the US will continue to benefit from people like McBride playing overseas, seeing different techniques and learning to play in different conditions. The cross pollonation of ideas will help grow players.

I would most like to see, one big MSL with 18 teams in the same division.

 

So what I hear you saying is MLS is not Fulham, I'm not watching it!

We should be very thankful that not everyone back in the day had this its not the best so I'm not touchin it mentality. Thankfully there were enough people who came and watched Fulham slog away in the fourth division back in the day, had there not been Fulham would never have survived to see the greener pastures it now does.