MLB 2013

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by dcheather, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    Alamo City, Texas
    Whatever you think of the play, it was a weird way to lose a ball game. Have to think the Sox are going to be a little snake bit throwing to third now. If I'm St Louis, I probably try to force a play there if possible and see.

    I won't speak for Don's neutrality, but as a fellow O's fan, yeah, there's some dislike there. Not Yankees bad, but in the last decade they've closed the gap quite a bit.
     
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  2. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

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    Louisville, KY
    I haven't dissected the replays like many have, but my initial feeling after watching the immediate replays following the call was that they got it right. It appeared to me that Middlebrooks lifted his lower legs as Craig was beginning to start for the plate. I haven't read the interference rule, but I don't think intention has anything to do with whether or not it should be called. To me, it looked like it MIGHT have been intentional, but I've never known how one can discern intent in such circumstances. At any rate, I'm pleased with the outcome, of course. But I'm not at all fond of this umpiring crew MLB has assigned. They did get the force out play at second base right in Game 1, correctly overruling the call by the umpire who's call it was, something that NEVER used to happen. But that same umpire was behind the plate last night and, in spite of the win, I thought his strike zone was VERY inconsistent. I hope he doesn't cost one team or the other (preferably NOT mine) the title with a blown call. Wouldn't surprise me if he did, however. These teams are REALLY close. And I still expect seven games to decide it. At the very least, I know we're going back to Boston. I just hope we hang on enough to win.
     
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  3. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    And, for your enjoyment and reading pleasure, the applicable rule for the play in question. Enjoy!

    Rules of Baseball
    Rule 7.06
    7.06 When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal “Obstruction.”

    (a) If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batter-runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out.

    Rule 7.06(a) Comment: When a play is being made on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall signal obstruction in the same manner that he calls “Time,” with both hands overhead. The ball is immediately dead when this signal is given; however, should a thrown ball be in flight before the obstruction is called by the umpire, the runners are to be awarded such bases on wild throws as they would have been awarded had not obstruction occurred. On a play where a runner was trapped between second and third and obstructed by the third baseman going into third base while the throw is in flight from the shortstop, if such throw goes into the dugout the obstructed runner is to be awarded home base. Any other runners on base in this situation would also be awarded two bases from the base they last legally touched before obstruction was called.

    (b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.

    Rule 7.06(b) Comment: Under 7.06(b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire’s judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call.

    NOTE: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.
     
    #63
  4. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Already know the rule, the legs of Middlebrooks raised or not does not matter one little bit. As soon as the ball is by him he has to disappear in order to not be called for obstruction, according to the rule. That's the part I have trouble with, it really makes it impossible for the fielding team to make any sort of play. I think Craig and Middlebrooks are both trying to do their thing and get in each other's way (especially Craig getting off balance as he turns on a bad foot). Just does not seem entirely fair, which why I think a little tinkering may be in order (like giving an opportunity for the fielder to get out of the way after diving to the ground or judging intent). But Joyce said he called him out because of Middlebrooks' legs being raised--so in effect he got the call right for the wrong reasons.
     
    #64
  5. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Sorry Jim, and Heather -- I love you, kiddo -- but it's clear obstruction. It's a Fulhamish way to lose a ballgame, but the guy was tripped and stumbled as a result. Had he not been tripped, he'd have scored. I can't see the problem, but I know that if I had a horse in this race, I'd be pretty pissed too.

    by the way, I saw almost this exact play watching the University of New Mexico play ASU in the old WAC. The Lobo's third baseman dove, missed the ball, and lifted his legs tripping the guy rounding 3rd. Somebody retrieved the ball and the runner was nailed at the plate. Result?

    1. Run scored
    2. 3rd baseman ejected
    3. Lobos fans booed the play, but the boos turned to cheers when the 3B was kicked out. His manager gave him an ear full.

    Like I said, very similar play, but the stakes weren't that big.
     
    #65
  6. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

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    Sep 24, 2011
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    Newburgh, IN
    It was a clear obstruction call and it is a fair rule that is counter balanced by rules that declare obstruction on base runners who equally cannot disappear from the base paths and inadvertently collide with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball. The call is rare but only equally as rare as umpires huddling to overturn the nearest umpire's call. In both cases the umpires got the call 100% correct. Yes, I am a Cardinal's fan but as a baseball fan I would have made the same comment if the shoe was on the other foot. I can also admit it is a disappointing way to lose but there have to be rules to govern who is entitled to the right to space where collisions can occur.
     
    #66
  7. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    another weird way to lost a WS game? Having a pinch-runner picked off 1st for the final out with the October monster holding the bat as the tying run. I feel sorry for that kid tonight.
     
    #67
  8. nevzter

    nevzter Well-Known Member

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    A City by a Bay
    This World Series is crazy - I'm expecting a Buckner moment in a game 6 followed by a Mazeroski-type walk off in game 7. It's only fitting.
     
    #68
  9. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Red Sox are the 2013 WS Champs! Good grief, last year was so awful, I would have never predicted this for this season. Thanks Sox for turning it around so fast.
     
    #69
  10. jimsig

    jimsig Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Location:
    Boston
    I posted this on facebook last night.

    I went to the Red Sox game the day after they caught the marathon bomber with my good friend. It was a surreal day. Boston has always been a close city, especially when it comes to sports, but that day you could see and feel the city get that much closer on all fronts. From the home uniforms saying "Boston" on the front for the first time ever, and nobody having a dry eye in the house from to the tribute they did, through the National Anthem, to Big Papi's speech, and to Neil Diamond showing up to do Sweet Caroline it was a special day and started the healing process for this great city. You knew that day this was a special team and would do all they could to help Boston. Tonight the bandage was ripped off. There will always be a scar but we are #BostonStrong and always will be.
     
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  11. astroevan

    astroevan Well-Known Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
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    Virginia Beach
    Kind of puts perspective on how worthless Bobby Valentine was.
     
    #71
  12. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Walnut, CA
    :handgestures-salute: Brilliant post Jim. Congrats to you and Heather. Getting rid of Valentine (as mentioned by Evan) was the start. The will to win for themselves and the city was in evidence all year. 11 years ago John Lackey was the winning pitcher in Game 7 of the only WS title for my Halos, and to see what he went through (mostly bad once he signed the big contract in Boston) and to rededicate himself to going out on his terms was fantastic. From showering of boos a season or two ago, to chanting his name and standing O leaving the field showed fans appreciating grittiness and resolve.
     
    #72
  13. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    As difficult and disappointing as it was to watch, us Cardinal fans have no complaints, really. Bosox deserved to win, they were the better team, really, pretty much from the beginning of the series. The truth is we were lucky not to get swept as in '04. It boiled down to two keys for me. 1) We couldn't figure out how to get Ortiz out. And I'm not sure ANYBODY would've been able to figure it out. Sometimes guys just get en fuego at the right time. Having to pitch around him in the later games led to the fatal big innings for my guys. 2) Our lineup couldn't make the adjustments they needed to at the plate versus the Boston pitching. And I'm not sure ANYBODY would've been able to figure it out. They were that good. And the team that led the majors in hitting with RISP was suddenly rendered moot. It's an age old cliché, but it's true...good pitching stops good hitting. Pretty much every time.
    The good news for St. Louis is we've got those early twentysomething flame throwers locked up for the next several years. Wacha, Kelly, Martinez, Rosenthal and Miller (remember Shelby Miller? 15 game winner as a rookie? Did Matheny forget about him?) are all under team control for next season, most for several more seasons. Beltran and Matt Carpenter filed for free agency today, but odds are they wouldn't have been able to replicate their '13 seasons for us. They'll cash in with other teams, Beltran most likely with and AL squad in need of a DH.
    I feared the worst when Walt Jocketty, then Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan left, but John Mozeliak and Mike Matheny have picked the ball up and run with it quite nicely. And Astro fans take note..the architect that started this ball rolling was your current GM, Jeff Luhnow. Patience ya'll. Houston will be back.

    So will El Birdos.
    Pitchers and catchers report in 104 days.
     
    #73
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