Different Directions

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by pettyfog, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    China Set to Restore Private Property Rights

    In the meantime, Hillary Clinton recently, on oil company profits, said:

    I would take those excessive profits....

    No word on how she would address the damage to retirement income for those hard-working middle class who will depend on their IRA's and 401K's to supplement Social Security... changes to which, she ALSO opposes.

    Perhaps part of those windfalls would be used to fund federal agencies to distribute the booty directly to those affected... which would also employ a goodly number of clerks and bureaucrats, beholden to the party that created their jobs.
     
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  2. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    Unless that's the entirety of Clinton's quote (which I doubt given the ellipse at the end), it's rather disingenuous to take it out of context like that, especially without even linking to a source.
     
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  3. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    It is the enduring genius of the Republican Party that they can convince normal working stiffs like 'fog that it's better for multi-billionaire oil companies to divide their windfall profits among a dozen or so multi-millionaire board members than it would be to tax those profits and, with the resulting income, do a little to help those citizens who DON'T drive to work in limosines.
     
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  4. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    And it's an amazing quality of kool-aid drinkers that they continue to spew party genearalist dogma DESPITE me making pointed references as to how doing so is harmful to the general welfare of the country.

    By your buzz-words shall I know you.

    >>> If I provided the link and context you wouldnt read it anyway... you have said as much.

    I made a specific context of POV... you responded with:

    I'm likely in far worse financial shape than you are.... but I know where to place the blame. And it isn't 'the MAN'
     
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  5. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    I understand.

    It was okay to have the troops in the field with inadequate body armor for the first 2 years of the war because we had to have tax cuts for the wealthy.

    It is okay to cut veterans medical benefits because we have to have tax cuts for the wealthy.

    It's okay to have substandard health care for returning soldiers who are severely wounded because we have to have tax cuts for the wealthy.

    It's okay to provide Halliburton and its subsidiary organizations with billions and billions in unmanaged dollars through no-bid contracts, provide no accountability nor oversight in the distributions of those moneys.

    It's okay to provide the wealthiest 5% in this country with 6 years of unprecedented windfalls as long as the president says they have also "sacrificed" for the war -- they have to see news reports of the fighting. My, what a sacrifice.

    At the end of the American Civil War, there were huge show trials of war profiteers. I'd love to see the same thing happen if the Iraq war ever ends, but it won't.

    And, 'fog, unlike your conservative, I'm not worried about ME. I'm concerned about the millions without medical insurance. I'm concerned about the enlisted people who do our fighting and dying for us who, since the mid-60s, have been eligible for income supplements of one type or the other because they are paid so poorly.

    That's where those tax cuts should have gone; that's where the money wasted to line the pockets of the already rich in war profits should have gone. You should know that truth inside you, but there is none so blind as he who will not see.
     
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  6. TonyTX42

    TonyTX42 New Member

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    Here's a slightly off-topic question, but applicable to something you said, Don: which do you think is better: the current medical insurance system (admittedly VASTLY flawed) or Canada's system of socialized medicine? I have a very good friend from Saskatchewan who says he'd rather have it the way we have it here (with some fixes, naturally). Or is there a better alternative that anyone has brought up (I'm sure there is; I'm not terribly politically active or well-informed; please forgive my ignorance)? Thoughts, please--I'm very curious!
     
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  7. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    I'm not sure if you're accusing me of being a Kool-Aid drinker or spewing partyist dogma, Pettyfog, but I still haven't seen the context of that little snippet of Clinton text.
     
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  8. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Nice diversion... if I go into a specific topic, you branch over to generalities... if I quote generalities with a specific instance you jump to another.

    You MIGHT look deeper into over federal revenues v tax rates. Even Dems use the vehicle when it's in their interest.

    NOW.... I am flatly stating that I need no context in quoting Hillary.. those few words exactly conveyed her meaning. We MIGHT discuss the advisability of changing corporate profit margins, I certainly would advocate Exxon et al to do a flat margin calculation on a gallon of crude, rather than price of a gallon of crude, THEN a margin percentage on overhead and production costs... but that is beside the point.

    But if you want to play dogmatic games about the right of the poor working stiff, what's your view on the Dem's passing a law against Union Secret Balloting... you know, they are FOR the secret ballot when they are trying to get into a company; against it if they are already in and it's about union dues usage or whatever.

    - For those of you who think they suffered a pay CUT, ... BEFORE that time, they didnt qualify for any assistance. The military has ALWAYS been 'poorly paid', but ours were at that time among the highest, if not highest, paid among the Western Countries.
     
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  9. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    I must admit I missed that one, 'fog. If you can give me the House or Senate Bill #, I'll go over to Thomas and check it out. I must admit that I'd missed the furor over Nancy's gang passing a bill to vacate such a significant portion of the Wagner Act.

    But you're so much more in tune with what's going on than I am. Waiting for that response.
     
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  10. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Washington View: Democrats' proposal threatens free choice
    I'm not surprised you 'missed that'. Your favorite media sources MEANT you to miss it.

    ** Ever belong to a union? If so, you wont attempt to say the worker STILL has freedom of choice. Yeah, the little nerdy schoolkid in the glasses doesnt REALLY have to give up his lunch money.
     
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  11. Spencer

    Spencer Active Member

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    Why shouldn't she take at least some of those profits?

    I'm no frikin Marxist but the growing economic disparity in this country makes me want to puke.

    I appreciate the value of proving yourself on merit and earning what your worth but when is enough enough?

    Can't a CEO live on 10mil rather than 20mil?

    Were talking 6,7,8,9,10 billion BILLION as in B, per QUARTER in profits!

    Come on. I hate the victim mentality but honestly there are victims. Lets acknowledge that.

    People need health care, people need access to a college education. Even if we took drastic measures and took 20% of those massive profits they're posting they'd still be doing just fine, I'm certain.
     
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  12. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    What "diversion"? I've asked the same thing a few times now. You're the one who's diverting attention from the fact that you're not providing context for a quote that doesn't even amount to a complete sentence.

    YOU may believe you need no context because you believe those few words conveyed her meaning. Are the rest of us supposed to assume that they actually did simply because you say so? Why don't you provide some context and let us see whether or not we agree with you?
     
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  13. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    'fog. Thanks for the reference on the Kennedy-Miller bill. I agree that it violates the spirit and intent of the NLRA and is a bad idea.

    Tony, I don't know enough about the Canadian health care plan to comment on its superiority/inferiority as compared to anyone else's plan. I will say that if you have a means of comparison there are probably some bad and some good points to it. For those millions of American citizens with no health care at all, however, I'm sure that the Canadian plan looks pretty good.

    Somewhere along the line, our first response to an overwhelming call for universal health care was a way to make the insurance companies even richer. And then, a few years ago, we upped the anti by making the drug companies even richer. Is this progress? I don't know. I do know that President Truman had a health care program in 1949 that he wasn't able to get past Congress. It would have cost us less than the interstate highway system. Ah, those were the days.
     
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  14. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    A national health care program might've been reasonably affordable in 1949 (I guess, anyway - I don't know how much we spent on the interstate highway system) but any such system would cost a whole lot of money now.
     
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  15. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    I agree; it would cost us a bundle. However, I don't think it would cost us as much as:

    (a) what we're spending weekly on the Iraq war PLUS
    (b) what's disappeared from the money set aside for the "rebuilding of Iraq" PLUS
    (c) revenue lost as a result of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

    But, hey, you have to have your national priorities straight.
     
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