Blogging Obama's Speech

So because I have a problem with a black church that teaches that AIDS was started by the U.S. government I'm not with it?

Obama doesn't think that all and he is an awesome man... but he is also a man who is a member of a church that has not and isn't really helping black people if it is teaching hate, bitterness, and ignorance.

The fact that there are African-Americans, today, who actually think AIDS was started by the U.S. government is horrible. It bothers me that Barack Obama hasn't confronted this ignorance head on in his own commmunity. It shows a lack of leadership. It shows a lack of caring. It shows a lack of intelligence.

You guys are the ones who need to start bringing some substance rather than just cheering a wonderful oration.

 

Lyle doesnt need anyone to make his case, but suppose we address that 'personal responsibility' that CF speaks of:

Is it 'personal responsibility' to seem to find someone ELSE to blame for your troubles? When you get down to the bottom of Wright's diatribes... as always, it's the 'best known enemy'.
Wright plays the easy-out card, and as I said, considering the meme of his denomination, as a whole, that's not surprising. White or Black.. the UCofC leadership falls in line with Social Justice as their operating theme.

 

Seems a bit of a reach, Don. Lyle was speaking of Obama's relationship with his church.

Not saying that's always the case... my brother -MORE 'conservative' than I am- stays in UCofC {and I actually do odd maintenance for the church when he asks me to} but our cousins -Democrat and more LIBERAL than I am- left for a Southern Baptist congregation 25 years ago. It all depends on how much attention you pay to the theology of the national office.

 

How can I be dragged into this 'disagreement'???

 

For being blind and deaf, I am surprised you are not a mute.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, Lyle. Now that you have gotten all that off your chest, and essentially repeated what Obama and many others have said, what are YOU going to do about it. Continue to bitch and moan and be "bothered" and angry, or raise the level of discourse like Obama did yesterday?

While I believe the biggest immediate challenge is to the black community, the task is everyones.

 

Obama actually hasn't spoken about his church supporting the myth that the U.S. government started AIDS. He just said his church does community work for people infected with HIV/AIDS.

What has he done to stop his church from teaching this myth?

I AM raising the discourse. People who think the U.S. government started AIDS need to be told otherwise. People shouldn't just go around thinking that's okay to think.

I don't disagree that there is a residue of slavery and segregation in America (Obama isn't the only one who is aware of this), but I will not support churches or political leaders who either directly or passively support such ignorance.

If America is going to have a discourse we must be honest, specific, and real. That means people have to actually tell other people that they are wrong, black and white, brown and yellow, purple and green, red and blue.

 

I actually did hear some of that from Obama yesterday. Interesting to me that you did not.

 

Do you know WHY that gained a 'hold', Lyle?

Because the US actually DID, for all intents, infect black men & women with Syphilis. this was a USPHS study in the thirties through seventies

It helps a LOT to know where this stuff comes from. But that white liberals use such as propaganda bothers me more than Rev Wright believing it would still happen today... UNLESS he has proof.

 

I understand that. However, understanding how it got started doesn't justify perpetuating it today.

I agree with what Mike Huckabee said this morning about Rev. Wright (many others as well), that he (Rev. Wright) did experience segregation. He was probably called names and he was probably made to sit in the balcony. He probably drank from a colored only water fountain. The man deserves to be cut some slack. Would I not also feel bitter? Probably so. Not having been around during segregation I must remind myself of this

... but that does not justify telling younger generations that the U.S. government started AIDS or the U.S. government is purposefully oppressing you today.

Here's Huckabee on MSNBC...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFLOu8fjxU

"As easy as it is for those of us who are white to look back and say 'That's a terrible statement!' ... I grew up in a very segregated South. And I think that you have to cut some slack — and I'm gonna be probably the only conservative in America who's gonna say something like this, but I'm just tellin' you — we've gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names..." - Mike Huckabee

 

Mike gets it. It would be nice to hear contemplation and see attempts at understanding each side, rather than the typical rhetoric we see and hear.

What you heard from Obama yesterday was not the beginning, just the biggest platform ever provided for such a request to a more reasoned and considerate approach.

So when I hear the same old responses, excuses, finger pointing, or dismissives, it tells me that that person did not grasp the totality of what was said in that speech.

 

The problem is that telling the truth often really stings people. It can't always be said in an unoffensive way. We can't pretend to think it can be easy, which is what some people will think after listening to Obama... even despite the fact he says it won't be.

Maybe Obama can use his church's pulpit to make a speech about how the U.S. didn't start AIDS. That would be a great place to get the ball rolling.

 

the trouble IS that SOME people only accept the TRUTH they want to hear.

I suggest Huck-ster read my original post on Wright's rants. Seems to me I'm a conservative and I cut him some slack... and for the exact reason he says.

But the TRUTH is that the Democrats have kept this sort of viewpoint going on purpose for years...
What Wright WONT see is that it's Obama's party who's to blame. Democrats NEED the 'victim classes' for support and DAMN if they are going to do anything to make it seem as though any member of a minority can make it without Government intervention.

That's why there's no big 'Asian Constituency'. {with the exception of Hillary fundraisers, of course}

 

Obama takes a BIG hit

Among Independents.

CBS News poll in

Feb / March

Obama 46 / 36

McCain 36 / 48

A poll in March doesnt mean much. But this Wright thing isnt going to die out, even now the endorsements of Black Panther party are being discussed.

I dont know WHEN some people are going to get the clue that if you want race to cease to be a factor, then quit bringing it up.. as if America OWES you something NOW for what happened in the past.

How about pointing out some country where blacks have achieved MORE than they have in the US.. even given it's been a hard long struggle. Just WHERE IS THAT COUNTRY?

Is it Canada? England? Russia? Even Cuba? Or where in Africa, itself?

Let's POINT OUT THAT HIGH-ACHIEVING AFRICAN COUNTRY!
- - - - - - -- - - - -- - - - - -
It occurs to me it's REAL easy to be a hypocrite about this.. I've been proud {as was my frankly bigot grandma} that my family never owned slaves.. even when obtaining slaves by marriage, as my ancestor did, traveling to Ohio to free them.. THAT DOESNT MATTER - NOW!

Even if they owned 50 slaves and bred and sold them, that has NOTHING to do with me and who I would or would not vote for. It has NOTHING to do with MY attitudes and biases... anymore than someone who disparaged the Irish back in the early 20th century.

I have NO right to be proud of that, because I had nothing to do with it. I could be the biggest racist in my whitebread little town, for all my dead relatives know. Neither does anyone else have the right to hold me accountable for something my race did in the past.

I owe them NOTHING but the courtesy of a hearing and to treat their attitudes and ideas the same as I would anyone else's... no matter the education, race, color, credo or religion.

 

Obama is Wright

I meant to insert myself into this thread a while ago but March was very busy for me so I'm resurrecting it now.

Obama's speech was great. While he didnt go as far in his criticism of Wrights statements as I would've initially preferred, I am glad that he didnt. Like he said in his speech, race relations have been pretty stagnant for decades. Despite the fact that racism has been eliminated from our laws and African-Americans are given loads of incentives and advantages, there is still an income gap, and education gap, and racial tension. Some of this is the remnants of slavery and civil rights, but like Obama also said, some of it is the result of people exploiting the past for personal gain. Some people have an interest in keeping racism alive and well.

Obama was smart not to cast Wright and that segment of the black community aside in his speech. He was right to say they are still like a part of his family. If Obama is ever going to have an effect on race relations in this country, he needs to do it without abandoning the likes of Rev. Wright and those in the black community who still think the US is racist. If he were to condemn and disown Rev. Wright and then get elected president, it would have no impact on race relations in this country. They would say he got elected by playing the white mans game. Like Condelessa, Colin Powell, and other successful blacks, he would be cast as an Uncle Tom.

If he gets elected President with Wright on his side then he will have credibility with every black in this country. Hopefully, then race relations can get better because blacks will have to finally admit that a black man who comes from nothing can make it in this country without being servile to whites. I think Obama made the right move with this speech and I hope his lack of condemnation for Wright doesnt prevent people from voting for him. For me it has done quite the opposite.

 

Re: RE: Obama is Wright

No accent. We traveled up north and were exposed to so many variations of the English accent that I get them mixed-up. As a result, I cant even immitate an English accent.

 

This is the kind of coversation I hope the nation will have. Hopefully Barak Obama will go beyond the Philidelphia speech and lead the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYf_xSrRSPE

 

Which swiftboating.. "My parents met on the Selma March'='Nixon sent me into Cambodia' swiftboating?

Would that equate to Bosnia Sniper fire or 'I was named for Sir Edmund Hillary?' swiftboating?

I'm sure there'll be some on McCain, as well. But unlike Hillary, or Kerry.. doubt he'll be proved a congenital liar. Jury's still out on Barack.