Austin Debate

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by pettyfog, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Read the transcript here!

    In fact EVERYONE should read debate transcripts maybe their eyes would be opened a little

    Examples:

    Border Security - Hillary's all for it. Unless it inconveniences anyone. Note she hits out at Bush for threatening eminent domain seizure to do it. She mentions Univ of Brownsville would have part of their campus taken away. Want to bet how they got that land in the first place .. and again that would inconvenience border jumpers who like the bucolic academic environment.

    English as official Language - Both of them STRONGLY against it. It would be nice if hispanics would learn English, of course, but WE should all learn Spanish.. because
    -sigh-
     
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  2. jmh

    jmh New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Where ya been, 'fog? There's still a discussion that needs your attention in this thread.
     
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  3. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    1. We don't need an "official language." We've done pretty well without it in the 218 years since the Constitution has been in effect. The ONLY purpose of the English Language amendment is to stir up disunity. It's bigoted, divisive, and WOULD ACCOMPLISH NOTHING IN TERMS OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

    2. Eminent domain is a valid point of discussion when talking about the "border security fence" -- especially in the Rio Grande Valley. Those of us who actually live down here have already seen the government wanting to put their fence [which will never be unbroken or contiguous] through the houses of some homeowners while plans call for it stopping at the property lines of a nearby golf course -- and then continuing again at the other end. We've already seen another huge gap in the fence so that there's no building on the property of a well-connected Dallas millionaire [named Hunt]. So, yeah. I think that selectively taking property is something that should be discussed.

    3. Meanwhile, anybody notice that there's still an elective, unnecessary, and costly war going on? Anybody notice that underequipped soldiers and marines are still dying because vehicle and body armor still isn't being supplied to them? Anybody notice that "the surge is working" sounds an awful lot like "mission accomplished" and "bring it on" did in early editions of "what are you traitors talking about? The Emperor has lots of clothes on?"

    4. Anybody notice the huge deficit created during this administration, the huge debt on the next 6 or 7 generations of Americans -- primarily because of profligate spending on this unnecessary war? Anybody notice how Blackwater and Halliburton and other administration pet companies have gotten obscenely wealthy on no-bid contracts in Iraq and in Lousiana? Anybody commenting at all on the size and arrogance and pure absolutism of the Bush Administration?

    5. No, of course not. Don't look at people without homes or jobs or health care. Woo hoo! Look over here! Woo hoo! Mexicans!

    Next up: flag burning, left-wing professors, unaccountable judges, gay marriage, and the war on Christmas. Brought to you by the Republican Party -- the Party of Ideas!
     
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  4. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    re: English as official language. I just don't get the push for this. I was speaking with someone who's a bit proponent of this and one of her reasons to support it was so that she didn't have to pick "English or Spanish" on the ATM or hit "1" for English (vice "2" for Spanish) when making calls. Don't they get that even if Congress makes English the official language, companies will STILL provide Spanish language support - why? because its just good business. Making English the official language accomplished absolutely nothing.

    Heck, German is the official language in Germany, but you can still get English language support for any aspect of business or government.
     
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  5. Spencer

    Spencer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    The official language business is just another ridiculous component to a ridiculous argument. Are there real problems with immigration? Yes. Are there reasonable and pragmatic solutions to these problems? Yes. The fear mongering behind this sudden NEED for an official language is not one of them.

    I don't know about the rest of you peeps but I rarely if ever run into a immigrant, Hispanic or otherwise, under 30 who doesn’t speak English. The immigrants which have only pigeon English are usually older or very fresh and in any case their six year old with them speaks flawless english(so yeah there may well be 120million Hispanics in 2050, that doesn’t mean there will be 120 million people who don't speak english!). Its not like there’s a need for a huge crackdown to force English on them, the incentive is already there and they’re acting on it.

    I've said this so many times on here and I'm sorry to be cliché, but please open your eyes and see the everyday reality on this. Our immigrants come here for the simple incentives, money, safety, health, education, an all around better life and they work hard to achieve it. They don't come here to live off the dole as is so often the case in Europe. Yet people are dead set on complaining about them.
     
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  6. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    and I've said it before many time, some even on this site, that in order for fringe groups to rally the poorly- or un-informed to their extremist cause, they have to create an "other." This "other" is a group of people who can be scapegoated for all society's ills. This group is responsible for the bad economy, for poor national security, for high taxation, for "fringe religions," for pretty much everything.

    Today, the "other" in the United States that the right wing needs to convince the poorly- or un-informed that their home and family and nation is at risk has been -- at various times recently -- immigrants, college professors, "unelected" judges, homosexuals, trial lawyers, AND MUSLIMS. In the past, this group has included socialists, blacks, Native Americans, Jews, Mormons, Catholics, and labor unionists.

    The key is to convince people that half of their problems are directly caused by the "other." The other half of their problems, of course, are caused by liberal government programs that favor "the other" over PEOPLE LIKE YOU. It works pretty well, especially during election campaigns. That's why you'll see such "issues" as Gay Marriage, English First, flag burning, prayer in school, and the War on Christmas put forth. It's all designed to get those people who don't really pay attention to things like the economy, our foreign policy, the war, etc. to focus on some quick slogan and get them to vote and/or protest, write letters to editors to support the very people who are trying to (a) scare them to death (b) making them feel like they're being betrayed.

    News flash: it works. It almost always works. And it's not just limited to electoral politics. The same "other" tactic works well for recruiting for groups like the KKK, urban street gangs, and groups like Al Kaeda.
     
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  7. jmh

    jmh New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I think you hit on an interesting point here. I feel like official language proponents have to view it as a symbolic gesture as much as anything else.

    I just don't think it's necessary. People learn English of their own accord. For that matter, I *think* if a state wanted to enact its own official language, it could do so, though maybe I'm missing some obvious reason why that couldn't be the case. I just see it as a product of xenophobia as much as anything else.
     
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  8. shinerbockguy

    shinerbockguy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Location:
    Arizona
    This would be hysterical - I did almost pee on myself laughing so hard - until I realized it's the sad truth...
     
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  9. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Well that's why I posted it here, as opposed to 'campaign' Give Don a chance to re-spew his nonsense.. there's no debating Don.. it all comes down to 'Same old'.

    heh..
     
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  10. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    and of course, nothing in my last post in this thread is untrue, historically or politically.

    heh yerself 8)
     
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