A brainteaser.. The Airline Short Takeoff Conveyor.

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by pettyfog, Dec 14, 2005.

?

The Plane will:

  1. Not be able to take off because it's sitting still in relation to surroundings

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Take twice as much distance to take off (in relation to surroundings)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Appear to lift off the ground vertically (in relation to surroundings)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Correct Is: Travel same distance to take off (in relation to surroundings)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Here's something that startled me... heard it on the radio, guy arguing about the results of:

    What will happen?

    I think it's funny that the guy on the radio is a pilot, and he got it wrong. I'm not, and I got it right.

    Take the poll and tell why.
    - - - -- - - - -- - - - - - -
    Added:
    If you really understand what you learned about how planes fly in middle school science class, you'll get it right.

    Poll set up to close 5 days from time I posted it!
     
    #1
  2. misswitch2

    misswitch2 New Member

    Joined:
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    dorking
    planes need a forward velocity to create a downforce on the wings to create lift?
     
    #2
  3. Smokin'

    Smokin' Administrator

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    Location:
    Machu Picchu
    If the conveyor runway doesnt allow the plane to move than that plane is never actually traveling, not building speed, and cannot create proper amount of wind friction it would need to take off...

    I wonder... would the time machine from Back to the Future suffer the same fate.
     
    #3
  4. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    Jul 29, 2005
    Wouldn't it be the same thing as running on a treadmill?
     
    #4
  5. misswitch2

    misswitch2 New Member

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    except the plane won't get thinner!!

    ....nope, velocity and speed are 2 different things
     
    #5
  6. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    Jul 29, 2005
    All of us have so far have voted with one answer choice. What's the verdict Petty?
     
    #6
  7. misswitch2

    misswitch2 New Member

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    i'm assuming it's the first one seeing as everyone (including petty) voted, and he admitted that he got it right even though he's not a pilot :)
     
    #7
  8. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    i did not vote

    and the poll expires in 4 days
     
    #8
  9. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    Jul 29, 2005
    I didn't see the results until I voted. I'm not a cheater :3d devil:
     
    #9
  10. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    And, remember, laws of physics do notrespond to a democratic vote.
     
    #10
  11. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    Jul 29, 2005
    Yeah, but it might prove that the average Fulhamusa poster is highly intelligent or a numpty.
     
    #11
  12. Smokin'

    Smokin' Administrator

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    Maybe I'm a numpty cuz I have no idea what that is.
     
    #12
  13. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    According to Urban Dictionary www.urbandictionary.com :
    Scottish usage:
    a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.

    b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment

    c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person
    a) "No. That wisnae wit she meant, ya big numpty!"

    b) i.e. "Silly billy", "You big dafty"

    c) "That numpty's driving with no lights on!"
     
    #13
  14. Smokin'

    Smokin' Administrator

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    Term of endearment? Are you flirting with me?
     
    #14
  15. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    Jul 29, 2005
    No, you numpty.
     
    #15
  16. misswitch2

    misswitch2 New Member

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    Location:
    dorking
    numpty = muppet!!

    i just knew the answer because i spend half my life on a plane taking off, then landing, then taking off, the landing again, then some more taking off......
     
    #16
  17. rumstove

    rumstove New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2005
    Location:
    Eau Claire, WI
    I was the first to vote...but I didn't leave comment as to why.

    but i agree with misswitch2 and smokin' where the plane needs to move forward to create downforce.

    If it was possible for a plane to take off from a conveyour belt (not having to move forward to take off) I would think the Navy would have been all over this years ago on their aircraft carriers.
     
    #17
  18. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Due to popular demand {no one else gives a s__t!}, I'm gonna end this early!



    Bear in mind:

    The conveyor has little to no effect on air surrounding it. Yes, there IS a 'skin effect', but let's not quibble.

    Aircraft gets lift from air passing over its wing

    Force from engines operates on "equal and opposite reaction", not applied against the conveyor.

    Actual speed of aircraft has nothing to do with how fast its wheels are turning

    If the aircraft is sitting still, relative to surroundings, then the conveyor would be still, also.

    So, the correct answer is:

    Minor friction increases aside, the aircraft takes off in same distance as it would without conveyor.

    Only difference is the wheels are turning twice as fast at lift-off as they would if the runway were concrete and not moving.

    Like I said, dont feel bad... the radio host/ licensed pilot thought the plane would be sitting still also. He, quite churlishly, said "Enough of the conveyor emails, already!"
    The original poster:
    http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191034-1.html

    Added:

    While I got THAT right.. I have an engineering bent... I would have gotten the 'downwind leg' puzzle wrong. After all, I'm NOT a pilot.

    Though it worries me that a pilot MIGHT have got it wrong.
     
    #18
  19. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    #19
  20. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    Jul 29, 2005
    Now I feel like I understand--sort of, thanks Scholzie's post #22. Just couldn't picture how the plane was getting it's momentum to move forward--too much time spent on treadmills, I guess. :big grin:
     
    #20
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