USMNT vs England/Italy

Discussion in 'Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International' started by astroevan, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. astroevan

    astroevan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Location:
    South Carolina
    A couple more matches against high profile opponents. Sarachan names another young squad as he continues to support the 2026 timeline that US Soccer has put out. I really wish that a permanent coach had been named by now. I guess that's part of the 2026 plan too.

    On the upside, I'm happy to see Luca de la Torre named. He deserves to get a shot to prove himself. Hopefully he makes it into the matches.

    https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...er-final-kickoff-series-matches-england-italy
     
    #1
    SoCalJoe likes this.
  2. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Newburgh, IN
    DETAILED ROSTER BY POSITION (Club; Caps/Goals):GOALKEEPERS (3):Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC; 59/0), Ethan Horvath (Club Brugge/BEL; 2/0), Zack Steffen (Columbus Crew; 6/0)

    DEFENDERS (10):John Brooks (Wolfsburg/GER; 35/3), Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas; 1/0), Cameron Carter-Vickers (Swansea City/WAL; 6/0), Aaron Long (New York Red Bulls; 1/0), Matt Miazga (Nantes/FRA; 10/1),Shaq Moore (Reus Deportiu/ESP; 3/0), Antonee Robinson (Wigan Athletic/ENG; 6/0), Jorge Villafaña (Portland Timbers; 19/0), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United/ENG; 56/0), Walker Zimmerman (LAFC; 3/1)

    MIDFIELDERS (13):Kellyn Acosta (Colorado Rapids; 21/2), Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls; 7/1), Luca de la Torre (Fulham/ENG; 1/0), Marky Delgado (Toronto FC/CAN; 5/0), Romain Gall (Malmö/SWE; 0/0), Julian Green (Greuther Fürth/GER; 14/4), Sebastian Lletget (LA Galaxy; 3/1), Weston McKennie (Schalke/GER; 6/1), Darlington Nagbe (Atlanta United FC; 25/1), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund/GER; 21/9), Kenny Saief (Anderlecht/BEL; 3/0), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC; 9/0), Tim Weah (Paris Saint-Germain/FRA; 7/1)

    FORWARDS (2):Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen/GER; 5/2), Bobby Wood (Hannover 96/GER; 43/13)

    So who are you looking forward to watching and who are you not surprised to see?

    Notable absentees: Michael Bradley and Jozy missing are notable absentees but not surprising. I am not really surprised by any exclusions this go around.

    The old switcharoo: If I could switch out one person on the roster it would be to replace Julian Green with Paul Arriola. I thought he brought a work rate on the wings we haven't seen enough of lately and there are way too many central midfiedlers on the roster.

    Extended run: I want to seer Kellyn Acosta get the start either sitting behind McKinnie and Adams or McKinnie/Acosta sitting behind Nagbe. I love Tyler Adams but I want to see how Acosta plays and Adams may be the best right back on the US roster though I don't expect to see him there.

    Will be disappointed if: It is not Weah and Pulisic on the wings and Sargent up top.
     
    #2
    encorespanish and SoCalJoe like this.
  3. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    If we don't include our experienced internationals, all we're doing is creating a highly competitive U-21 squad.

    We've wasted every day since we didn't qualify for the World Cup. EVERY. DAMNED. DAY.
     
    #3
    jumpkutz likes this.
  4. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Location:
    Walnut, CA
    HD, what veterans are you referring to? Guzan, Yedlin, Brooks, Pulisic (he’s a vet already because of all he’s been through for the Nats despite his age), and Wood are all on board.

    Michael Bradley? He has a future (on the coaching staff) but none as a player. He was in the last camp and was dreadful in the game he played. He hasn’t lost 1 step, more like 2 or 3 (Father Time is undefeated). Everyone has respect for him, but we have to find his replacement now, not two years from now.

    Jozy Altidore? We know what he brings to the table (good and bad), there can be a role for him going forward (as a sub, if he can adapt to that role), but in my mind it’s far more important that Josh Sargent plays 180 minutes against England & Italy even if the kid takes some lumps.
     
    #4
    encorespanish and BarryWhite like this.
  5. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Newburgh, IN
    (FYI .. not piling on, Joe beat me to the post)

    First, your U-21 comment is hyperbole at best because most of the guys called in are playing first team football with a good deal of them playing at a high level and several of the young guys like Weah and Sargent have proven they deserve the chance they're being given.

    Second, who do you think is walking through the door as an experienced international to save the day for the US? Just to help you pick a few the last two competitive rosters for the US are below. Geoff Cameron is the one guy I would like to see called in based on experience and current performance but he has burned a lot of bridges and that may include some with players currently on the roster.

    Blue = on the current roster
    Red = injured for most of 2018 or retired from USMNT

    US Gold Cup Roster

    GOALKEEPERS:
    Brad Guzan – On the roster as the experienced and still viable keeper and a USMNT regular
    Bill Hamid – was in Europe not playing until he returned to DC United
    Sean Johnson – not a regular international

    DEFENDERS:
    Matt Besler - replaced by John Brooks who was injured at the time and is a USMNT regular
    Omar Gonzalez – I don't think Omar provides anything above the currently rostered players
    Matt Hedges - not a regular international
    Eric Lichaj – This is the one defender excluded from the list that I might want at least in the camp
    Matt Miazga – on this roster and is not a USMNT regular
    Justin Morrow – not a regular international
    Jorge Villafaña - on the roster
    Graham Zusi – Zusi does not belong on this roster

    MIDFIELDERS:
    Kellyn Acosta – on this roster
    Paul Arriola – I liked what Arriola brought but he is a squad player at best
    Alejandro Bedoya – There is no place for Bedoya in this squad
    Joe Corona – Corona is the guy I have forgotten about, but he has been in a couple of ’18 friendly camps if I recall correctly
    Dax McCarty – There is no place for McCarty in this squad
    Cristian Roldan – has been active in ’18 but is a fringe player
    Kelyn Rowe – Dropped off the map as far as I can tell
    Kenny Saief – on this squad has been active in ’18 when not injured
    Gyasi Zardes – has had a good MLS season as a forward but I don’t want him over Wood or Sargent

    FORWARDS:
    Juan Agudelo - I don’t want him over Jozy, Wood or Sargent
    Dom Dwyer - I don’t want him over Jozy, Wood or Sargent
    Jordan Morris – injured torn ACL


    US World Cup Qualifying Roster

    GOALKEEPERS:
    Tim Howard – Not an option
    Brad Guzan – On the roster as the experienced and still viable keeper and a USMNT regular
    Nick Rimando – Not an option

    DEFENDERS:
    Geoff Cameron – I would like Cameron in camp, but he has likely burned his bridges
    Omar Gonzalez – again I don’t want him back before anyone currently called in
    Matt Besler - replaced by John Brooks who was injured at the time and is a USMNT regular
    Jorge Villafana – on the roster
    DeAndre Yedlin – on the roster and USMNT regular
    Graham Zusi – not an international caliber right back
    Tim Ream – injured for the majority of 2018
    DaMarcus Beasley – retired again I believe
    Michael Orozco Fiscal – was never a regular

    MIDFIELDERS:
    Kellyn Acosta – on the roster
    Juan Agudelo – no place as a forward or a midfielder
    Paul Arriola – again I like him as a squad player replacing Green
    Alejandro Bedoya – not a regular international
    Michael Bradley – called in during last friendlies and was poor
    Benny Feilhaber – no place going forward
    Dax McCarty – never a regular and no place going forward
    Darlington Nagbe – on the roster and a USMNT regular
    Christian Pulisic – injured for most of ’18 internationals but on this roster and a USMNT regular
    Gyasi Zardes – not an option at midfield

    FORWARDS:
    Jozy Altidore – injured for most of ‘18
    Clint Dempsey – retired
    Bobby Wood – on the roster and USMNT regular
    Chris Wondolowski – no place going forward

    Unless we find a way to rejuvenate Dempsey, DMB, Bocanegra and Reyna the answer for this squad does not lie in past USMNT regulars. A couple, specifically Jozy if he is ever healthy again, might contribute but there is no treasure trove of players the US is ignoring. At best both Cameron and Bradley's level of play has dropped from their prime and there is nobody, including Ream, that stands head and shoulders above those currently selected in my opinion. Who is it that you believe the USMNT is ignoring? The better rant is not having a coach in place to begin molding the talent we do have into a cohesive unit.
     
    #5
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    encorespanish likes this.
  6. astroevan

    astroevan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Location:
    South Carolina
    My interpretation: There is a difference between bringing in veterans to compete in the matches now (what Barry and Joe seem to be referring to) and bringing in veterans for guidance, knowledge, and leadership (what Don seems to be referring to).

    A number of the guys listed by Barry are labeled as "no place going forward" and I cannot argue that. But I could potentially argue (for some of them at least) that there is a place presently. Whether or not these players would accept a role of mentor is unknown, but my guess is that a bunch of them have better insights on the game and opposing players than the current batch of coaches.

    Fulham brought in Scott Parker and during the 4 seasons that he was with the club, he transitioned more into a player coach with more substitute appearances than starts. The US needs Scott Parkers.
     
    #6
    encorespanish likes this.
  7. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Newburgh, IN
    I would say when Fulham brought in Parker he deserved regular playing time as a starter. He was a leader by his play and by his experience. When I indicated a player had no future going forward I meant from today. There are no Scott Parker’s saving perhaps Arriola, Jozy, maybe Bradley & maybe Cameron to call in. To be honest I’d rather call Dempsey out of retirement than any of the four listed. He knows what grit and determination is and that needs to be passed along. It’s the main reason I like Arriola.
     
    #7
  8. astroevan

    astroevan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I hear what you are saying and thank you for clarifying. Though given the fact that Bedoya, Zusi, Gonzalez, and Besler all played in at least 3 of the 4 US World Cup matches in 2014, I think that they may still be useful in leading the new class of players. Sarachan was an assistant coach with the LA Galaxy in 2014 and has only worked with the national team since 2017. I cannot speak for the other coaches but he has far less international experience than all of those players.

    Like you emphasized though, the biggest issue is the fact that there is no permanent coach. So any guidance that Sarachan or the veteran players are providing could be all for naught.
     
    #8
    BarryWhite likes this.
  9. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    You've captured my gist, sir.

    My point is that if these guys don't get a chance to train and play with experienced European veterans, they'll be nothing but hot house flowers. Would Dempsey have matured had he only trained at Fulham with the youth squad? Would Cameron? Yedlin?

    With the exception of Brooks, Wood, Pulisic, Guzan, and Yedlin, none of our "squad regulars" since the WC qualification failure have merited any full-time work in one of the top four European leagues -- nor have they had any experience in them. Which Americans DO have experience in the European top four that aren't in our plans? Bradley, Jozy, Cameron, and Bedoya.

    Our very talented youngsters get only domestic cup work right now with the first team -- if then. Everywhere else in the world, a young player being called into an international camp provides them with the opportunity of working with mature successful professionals -- something deemed invaluable in the maturation process. The absence of it since the WCQD has put our talented young kids in stasis.
     
    #9
  10. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    And how long will it take to hire Gregg Berhalter?
     
    #10
  11. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Location:
    Walnut, CA


    I've been waiting 16 years for the handball call on Berhalter's shot and it still hasn't come, so it could take awhile :rolleyes:
     
    #11
  12. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
  13. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    And tha' Anglish:
     
    #13
  14. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    We sucked rocks in the first half, but looked significantly better in the second.

    For those of you who haven't seen Loftus-Cheek very much, look out for this kid. He IS all that.

    Our best player by far was Brooks. On to Belgium to play Italy [makes sense to someone].
     
    #14
    BarryWhite and SoCalJoe like this.
  15. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Newburgh, IN
    We did suck rocks in the first half. Second half, it looked like someone took the leash off McKinnie going forward which made a big difference in the US attack. McKinnie’s attacks with the ball through the middle sucked in England’s defense and helped create room on the edges which Brooks took advantage of with some pinpoint passes.

    The kid I was watching was Jordan Sancho. England has some really good young talent.
     
    #15
    SoCalJoe and encorespanish like this.
  16. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    We basically lost to their second string. Only regs I saw for them was Pickford, Alli and Lingard. No Kane, Rashford, Stones, Dier, Sterling and whomever else has been starting for them. Won't see that when they play Croatia. Hire Gregg Berhalter already!
     
    #16
  17. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Alamo City, Texas
    Sancho is a unique talent. He had a standout performance v Bayern Munich last week.
     
    #17
Similar Threads: USMNT England/Italy
Forum Title Date
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International USMNT news 2018 Feb 26, 2018
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International USMNT '18 January Camp Jan 8, 2018
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International USMNT v. Portugal Nov 5, 2017
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International USMNT - Gold Cup Jun 25, 2017
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International New USMNT Kits Jun 20, 2017

Share This Page