"Saving" players

Discussion in 'Fulham FC News and Notes' started by jumpkutz, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

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    http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/spor...ws/fulham-sensation-spared-crash-bang-8903902

    I'll admit to not being the sharpest tool in the shed, but someone's gonna have to 'splain this one to me. As best I can tell, this sport's current biggest stars, Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar Jr., appeared to break through into the top echelon of competition pretty close to their 18th birthdays. Again, I'm no math major, and my numbers may be way off, but that's how I've figured it. Why, then, are we "saving" young Roberts from the perils of the Championship? Is it really that much more physical than other top European leagues? Aren't we a "selling" club? If he's really this good, we're gonna lose him anyway, right? I say trot the lad out there. As Mr. Hymel so eloquently put it in his last "View," we were, and still are to a significant degree, populated by a number of players best described as journeymen when Magath was finally sacked. We ain't gonna get back to where we wanna be without putting the best talent we can get on the pitch. As much as I like Ross McCormack, Hugo Rodallega and Matt Smith, we are where we are for a reason. Play Patrick Roberts and whomever else some of the big boys have goo goo eyes over while we can. The only reason I see for saving players like him must be that La Liga is "softer" than the English game. Somehow, I don't buy that.
     
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  2. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

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    Great post Jump, I've always been curious about how we bring along players. There is a fine line between developing a youngster and putting them in too soon. However, I'm with you, let's throw the kid in the deep end and if he's good as advertised he'll be swimming in no time.
     
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  3. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    I get your point, Jump, and don't necessarily disagree. However, that's some lofty company you're comparing him too. Also, there's a huge difference debuting at 18 with ManU or Barca and all of their surrounding talent and trying it with this Fulham team. Especially one that is so weak in the middle.
     
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  4. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

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    Until Patrick Roberts breaks into the senior national team like Neymar, Bale, Messi and ElHair did the comparisons are a bit premature. Is Roberts good enough for the Championship? I certainly hope so but we are in a relegation fight and throwing him in to find out now might be a dangerous gamble.
     
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  5. ChicagoCottager

    ChicagoCottager Active Member

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    I have a little pet theory on Paddy Roberts. Before the season there was a lot of talk about how Arsenal and other 'big' clubs were interested in buying him. There were also rumors that Roberts was pretty keen on jumping ship and joining a big team. My theory is that we've kept Roberts of the field and out of the limelight until we can tie him down to a long term contract, which Symons has now said they want to do.

    Jump, you say we're a selling club, and historically I can't disagree, but I think the club views this group of youngsters differently. As far as I can tell it's the most accomplished group of young players this club has ever produced, and largely under our current manager's guidance. I think Kit looks at Roberts and sees a player that could help us a little this season, but in doing so risks losing him permanently. Instead, he's looking at it as a chance to give him a little exposure to the league, sign him long-term, and then set him loose in the coming seasons.
     
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  6. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

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    Can't verify the authenticity of this claim but, if true, might explain some of this.... english u 21's.jpg
     
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  7. BarryWhite

    BarryWhite Well-Known Member

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    I don't find that hard to believe Jump. My perception, right or wrong, is the English leagues have a higher ratio of foreign to domestic players than other countries.
     
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  8. FulhamTX

    FulhamTX Member

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    I believe you are 100% correct
     
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  9. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    I think it has to do with his lack of size more than anything. Perhaps there's an element of protecting his transfer value as well?

    I'm missing the logic in how shelving a kid who is interested in a big move would somehow entice him to then sign a long term contract.
     
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  10. ChicagoCottager

    ChicagoCottager Active Member

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    It's more about the big clubs not being interested in a kid that isn't playing in the Championship. I think you get him to sign long term because other clubs aren't coming in and you promise him game time in the coming seasons.
     
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  11. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    True, but he was on the radar of big clubs before just from playing U18 & U21. I don't believe that goes away by keeping him out of the 1st team. If anything, it hurts his sell value...unless he's not ready for the Championship yet.

    I could be wrong, but I'm not under the impression we can (or even want) to keep him if a good bid comes in.
     
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  12. ChicagoCottager

    ChicagoCottager Active Member

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    I don't get that impression at all. Even though we have several promising young players I've always had the impression that he's the most important to hold on to.
     
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  13. Masterhaynes

    Masterhaynes Member

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    Hi guys
    its been a while since my last post, as I'm flying over next Saturday just been catching up on your posts. Thought I'd just give you my opinion having watched him several times last season along with his handful of cameos this season. He has had some impressive performances for England's youth teams over the last 12 months ad that is where a lot of hype has come from. Nothing has changed my mind since I last posted in that I don't believe he is any where near ready.

    Messi may be small but my sons wife summed Roberts up when she saw him warming up and thought he was the mascot. He is unable to physically hold off bigger defenders and although it was often a foul the referee just put it down to size differential, this was also the case in the U18's last season. Yes he can run with the ball and beat players with his close control and has a solid shot on him but needs to have the ball played in front of him to run onto. Unfortunately the Fulham faithful have seen him have a run, beating players with his footwork and think he is the next messiah and ignore the fact he is unable to defend for toffee as players just brush past him.

    A lot of his success for Fulham and England U18 cane from other very good players making runs and creating space for him. Roberts was a lot less effective when George Williams, Dean O'Halloran and Emerson were not on the field with their pace and movement. The same 3 players could all be counted on to perform regardless of who else was on the pitch last season.

    I was ecstatic when we signed George on a long contract and so sorry for him when I heard about his injury. In my humble opinion I would have Emerson and George top of the list to keep followed closely by Dean O'Halloran, Jordan Evans, Liam Donnelly, Cameron Burgess, Luca De la Torre(very impressed with him this season) Moussa and Foday Nabay from that group of 17-18 yr olds. All have maturity and skill, Roberts is gifted with quick feet and being small can turn on a sixpence(dime to you)but is still very much a teenager in his actions and performances very up and down. He played in the U21's the other week (where he should have been for most of this season) and kept getting caught with the ball and trying to do too much and displayed his frustration too often. I would not be too disappointed should we cash in on him as I think he's a bit like a lottery ticket you may hit the jackpot but more likely to win zero. Also I believe in Dean and Tom we have players that will create a better and more solid team . There have been many players with exceptional talent that disappeared because they mentally don't apply themselves -just look at Ravel Morrison West Ham can't even offload him, even our own Chris David.

    Unfortunately the focus is on this group and everyone overlooks the players in the group above. I would love to see Tom Richards, Freddy Plumain, Stephen Arthurworrey given an opportunity should we secure safety before the last two games to see how they fare against top championship players but I fear 2 of them may end up being released if Kit still holds the managers seat as he never seem to rate them in his u18 & U21 teams despite some great performances.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
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  14. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    This is a brilliant piece of analysis. Thank you so much for this.
     
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  15. Masterhaynes

    Masterhaynes Member

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    Thanks HatterDon
    Please bear in mind it is only my opinion, I'm sure you will find many others that will vehemently disagree with me though most of the guys that have watched the U18's over the last few years seem to have similar views.
    I'd like to see Roberts play in all the U21 run in games which are critical. The U21's are also caught up in a relegation scrap, though with their squad should be well clear and they a similar testing last 3 games against the top 2. If selected he needs to take on the mantle of a senior player who is being relied on to deliver for the team for the whole 90 minutes in a similar way that the likes of Emerson has. It will tell us a lot about him and his possible contribution in the future. I'm really gutted to be missing the 2 most critical games of our season at home to Wigan and Rotherham but also the U21 Sunderland game at the cottage and the U18 games at Motspur against Newcastle & Bolton which I believe will just as crucial in all our teams avoiding relegation.
    Something has gone badly wrong at the club this season, some are clear mistakes in appointment of Managers for first and U18 teams and not really knowing what to do with the U21's for a while but we seem to have addressed that in both academy teams now.
    The recruitment seems to have backed off in the academy this last 18 months, we still have some very good prospects with the likes of Luca, Foday, Stephen Edun and Raheem Sheckleford but not the vast array we have been used to over the last 3-4 years
     
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  16. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to Fulham's Academy your opinion weighs a lot with me MasterHaynes. Thanks for sharing and safe travels.
     
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  17. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    MasterHaynes, do you think the majority of our prospects are ready to compete in League 1? Enough for a starting XI perhaps? Or to form the majority of a first 18?

    I'm thinking something along the lines of Bettinelli, Grimmer, Burn, Hutchinson, Kavanaugh, LVC, Hyndman, Williams & another winger with Woodrow & Dembele up top. Or any others I'm missing.
     
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  18. Masterhaynes

    Masterhaynes Member

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    I'm not as convinced by others of Hutchison, he has really shown his inadequacies in the last few games personally I would have liked to see Arthurworrey given more opportunities than just his one appearance against Derby in the cup where he played well and showed his confidence on the ball. There are others like Plumain, who plays wide or through the centre up front, looked more than ready against Norwich last season in the cup. Puzzling that he has not been given a single opportunity while looking impressive for the U21's. I know I go on about him but I really rate Tom Richards who should be given a chance, he is on the small side but is stronger than Kavanagh and uses his pace more effectively than Sean.
    About 2 years ago I predicted that we would have at least 8 players from the academy working their way into first team if we could keep hold of them. Well David & Tankovic have left but I think there are a couple of others that could step up. in the next 18 months. The only disappointment is Josh Passeley who from his actions and reports I hear from Season ticket holders at Portsmouth is showing a lack of work ethic.
    With the right experienced players in the key positions around them I believe we could comfortably field 5-6 players from the academy as starters next season with 3-4 more on the bench and still do well. certainly from what I've seen this season we couldn't have fared much worse with some of the performances, it shouldn't go unnoticed that in 2 away games this season where we came away with a dogged performance winning against the run of play at Leeds and Huddersfield. On both occasion's we had more youngsters starting than usual. Scott Parker was missing n both games which raises the old chestnut question about not winning anything with kids and needing experienced players..
     
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  19. jumpkutz

    jumpkutz Well-Known Member

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    #19
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