Other European Transfer News

Discussion in 'Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International' started by FFCinPCB, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
  2. ChicagoTom

    ChicagoTom Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago
    And somewhat similar to the Josh Wolff story above, MLS has rejected Celtic's bid for New England Revolution midfielder Shalrie Joseph. I have always though Joseph was a good player. I have wondered how he would do in Europe. I guess MLS does not want to know.

    http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hli ... ked+by+MLS
     
    #2
  3. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    Immigration is a bugger no matter where you go, but I have to think what the MLS is doing will be legally challenged. Not allowing individuals to market and sell their assets, themselves, competitively, is one of the most unconscionable limitations on business and freedoms imagineable.
     
    #3
  4. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    Sometimes it works in your favor. Remember that Clint Mathis was high on the radar of the EPL and was turned down for much the same reason. Then he went to Hannover and pissed his career away.

    I was surprised about Wolff. I thought his recent World Cup success would make a difference, just as Derby's gaffer thought.

    Also, I'm having a hard time believing that Mido is back with Spurs. I think he's a cancer in the clubhouse and looks at Keane's effort and commitment as a license for him to loaf. Jol hasn't made a lot of dumb moves, but I think this is one.

    About Shalrie Joseph and the MLS, the league is incredibly difficult with transfers and has an expansive opinion of themselves and their worth. They need to fix this attitude fast.
     
    #4
  5. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    It can't be legally challenged, unless the player wants to claim that he signed the contract while he was drunk out of his mind and/or any other "altered" state. The MLS owns the player's contract, the player is an "asset" to the league, and both parties have live to the terms of said contract.
     
    #5
  6. ChicagoTom

    ChicagoTom Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago
    I think Mido's efforts at Spurs over the last 18 months prove that he is NOT a clubhouse cancer and all of the negative crap he did earlier in his career is over. He is still only 22 or 23 and seemed to be a good fit last season with Spurs.

    They need another striker with them being in the UEFA Cup to add to their depth in case of injuries. The big question I want to know is what will happen to Jermain Defoe? He seems to be the odd man out. I would kill for a player like Defoe to fall in Fulham's lap, but that will not happen. It will be sad to see him on the bench though more often than not. I think he is a real talent.
     
    #6
  7. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
  8. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    Au contraire mon ami. It can be legally challenged. Whether it is successful is a whole other issue. I would be surprised if we don't see a challenge coming down the line if the MLS keeps it up.
     
    #8
  9. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    The MLS proves that the worst form of socialism is that formed by the rich to make themselves richer.
     
    #9
  10. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    I guess I should have said if a player wants to waste their valuable money on hopeless cause, then sure they can take it court. On what grounds would they be able to get out of their contract? If they entered the contract of sound mind and agreed to the terms of the contract, they don't stand a chance. Unless, the MLS broke the terms of the agreement.
     
    #10
  11. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    When I use the terms "unconscionable", that is most likely what I would refer to in front of the judge or most likely arbritrator. I would love to see the actual agreement, but if a contract says my guy is not free to go play in an arguably superior league that not only does not compete with MSL, but also has a different season altogether, I am saying the MSL does not have to worry about that player competing against their interest. So therefore any non-competition agreement is not valid. Plus any offset for breach of contract or what they paid for my guys services, would be paid by the transfer fee (and probably then some).

    That is just to begin with. If anyone has a copy of an MSL Agreement, I will gladly give you my email address.
     
    #11
  12. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    I doubt the player would have much of case. The player claiming unconscionability will have to prove both that there is a problem with the substance of the contract and the process in which it was formed, with today's lawyers working for sport's leagues I don't think there's anything to be found in either area. Too much has happened in the sporting world for lawyers not to have thought of it before the contract is signed.

    What's most likely going to happen in the future, is MLS players are going to have more detailed transfer clauses written into their contracts. And the better players will most likely just forgo the MLS altogether.
     
    #12
  13. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    Your faith in the establishment is somewhat jaw dropping.

    Also, I think you have misstated unconscionability. The basic test is whether, in light of the general commercial background and needs of the particular parties, the clauses involved are so ONE-SIDED as to be unconscionable under the circumstances existing at the time the contract was formed.

    Now, lots of room for wiggling there, which may or may not be good for both sides, so I would look to the contract first and fall back to unconscionability only after poking multiple holes in the contract itself.
     
    #13
  14. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    Well, if you want to represent MLS players in court, go ahead. (I know you would enjoy it a great deal, sticking it to MLS.) :lol: But I don't think there is as much wiggle room as you think there is. Plus, I didn't state what unconsionability was in the previous message, only what what will have to be proved in court.

    Again, the MLS is only shooting itself in the foot for short-term gain. They would be better off by being more player friendly. The better player's will just skip it, if they can't get a contract to their fitting.
     
    #14
  15. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    RE: Re: RE: Other European Transfer News

    I would love to stick it to the MSL. Perhaps I may get a chance one day. :twisted:

    Not to belabor the point, but the basic test as stated in my previous post is exactly what someone would have to prove in court.

    Anyway, I am sure you and I (especially I) have bored some people terribly with this conversation. But it always fun to get the synapsis firing in an entertaining direction versus what I actually do.

    One thing I did do as a result of conversation, is look up recent court cases, in the U.S. and Europe, regarding this. While there is nothing on point, for those interested:

    http://www.american.edu/TED/soccertrade.htm

    and

    http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/get ... 1-1296.01A

    Interesting bathroom reading.
     
    #15
  16. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    The whole reason why the MLS is set up this way is that they were trying to keep away from the NASL experience where there was one incredibly wealthy team, two or three "doing not so bad" teams, and the rest was destitute. Owners don't own teams so much as they hold franchises, and players are paid, transfered, released, and screwed on the basis of what the league holds is to the benefit of the league itself.

    In other sports, players could claim "collusion" or "restraint of trade." But since the MLS was established precisely to accomplish these two things, there's not a lot of ground for claiming misrepresentation.

    Why does it go on? Because to some of us, the US is never going to be a real soccer power until it has a stable domestic league. We've got that, and I'm prepared to let it do stupid things -- like decide, for instance, that only hispanics in San Antonio would support a franchise -- in order for the league to continue.

    It's frustrating to watch the league do things like this, but it is all we have, and I'll close an eye to it.
     
    #16
  17. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    Yep, MLS and all its teams are a single entity. Court decided that was o.k., but as one of the professors pointed out, the argument can be made that the formation of this entity as such was to contravene anti-trust laws.

    What's the saying, "a rose by any other name..."

    The MLS and U.S. courts are not done with each other by a long shot.
     
    #17
  18. Spencer

    Spencer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    The Wolff thing has nothing to do with MLS. The Jospeh thing on the other hand has me exploding.

    This has got to change. Shalrie is not a young player and just over 500,000 pounds is an appropriate number for him. Unlike Dempsey he has never competed at a level higher in than MLS. Celtic made the right offer. For MLS to hold Shalrie back like this is very upsetting to me. He is a product of MLS, he has reached his peak in this league and is ready willing and capable of moving on to a higher level. Celtic is one of the bigger and more historic names in world soccer. As the article states Shalrie could be competing against Benefica and Manchester United now he's stuck with Columbus and Kansas City.

    Normally I'm on the side of MLS but this has got me furious. MLS is holding the player back. For journeymen player like Shalrie Joseph this may be a once in a life time offer. MLS is shooting its self in the foot here big time. Not only is MLS turning down a good transfer fee, they are deterring young talents from signing with the league.

    As for the legal argument, no offense PCB but I think your being a bit delusional here. The player is tied to the club until his contract has run its course. For a player to use legal action to force himself to be sold would be a first in soccer, would it not? Unhappy players all over the world would be doing this, it would be a mess. My opinion, if you sign a contract you must honor that contract.

    For future reference its not the attacking of MLS management that gets me upset but the attacking of the players in the league and the quality of play of the league.
     
    #18
  19. kwdawson

    kwdawson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Location:
    Spring Hill, Florida
    I agree Spencer, MLS needs to realize that they will never be the Premier League which is fine. They need to inspire to be a league like the Argentina, Brazil or at best the French.
     
    #19
  20. FFCinPCB

    FFCinPCB New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach, FL
    No offense Spencer, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't mean that as a personal insult either. Get back to me after law school.

    Nice dig at the French League dawson.
     
    #20
Similar Threads: European Transfer
Forum Title Date
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International European Political Football Apr 3, 2009
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International Other European Leagues' Cups Jan 21, 2009
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International European Cup/Champions League Quiz... Jun 18, 2007
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International European Competition May 20, 2007
Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International Predictions for European Leagues Aug 3, 2006

Share This Page