On Hillary..

Havent had too much to say about her lately but that's because we dont know how she could do much to influence the inevitable outcome.

But one thing that's come out is her campaign's charges of 'sexism' playing a role in her defeat:

Peggy Noonan, WSJ: Sex and the Sissy

The problem with Noonan's piece is that she ignored the obvious... Clinton had the goods on Obama in the beginning but felt such entitlement that she simply waved away what would become a threat.

From my view on the other side of the river, though, my opinion of Hillary is that she's gained my respect.

1. She stopped the fishwife scold/screeching to make her points

2. She picked a core voting segment and went after it

3. She did not go overboard in her promises

4 She made Billy Jeff look mortal while he amazed us by 'standing by his woman'.
- Thus we got a grounding on this couple flawed and prone to the dysfunction that many of us address in our relationships. Made herself 'human'

5. The more hopeless it looked the calmer she became

6. She stopped the fishwife scold/screeching to make her points


Isnt it funny... NOW the Dems finally openly acknowledge the problem with the Clintons. And I, along with a lot of other conservatives, like them more.

 

I dont like complaints of sexism either, but I believe Hillary has only complained about sexism from the media - and only recently. Hillary has not been whining like Noonan asserts. She's been quite the opposite.

Watch this video. Obama has not had to put up with anything near this bad - nor has any other male candidate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdnlNZg ... re=related

It used to be that I couldnt stand Hillary but for a lot of the reasons Petty pointed out I quite like her now.

 

Yikes. Being a fellow conservative and living through her and her husbands reign in the 90's, as I am sure you both did as well, I can't find the ability to now like her.....just because she is losing and has had an opportunity now to face the facts she and Billy Bob are not invincible. This is a growth opportunity for her but as Lincoln once said:

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's/woman's character, give them power.

When they had power they destroyed reputations and lives. I can forgive but not find myself liking her.

 

I guess I like her relative to how I literally hated her before. Good point RR and I like the quote.

But the media has constantly referred to her appearance and talked about her with references to the "nagging wife, bitchy wife" and other negative female stereotypes. I dont think she has whined about it until now and that impresses me.

The media wouldnt dare talk about Obama by referring to black stereotypes or say the only reason McCain is a Senator is because he was tortured in Vietnam

 

Thanks for making that point, Conservative pettyfog. This is what gets missed all of the time when people criticize the Clintons' marriage - that they have a realistic 21st century American marriage. Only they didn't get divorced...

 

Re: Hillary outrage..

That goes two ways, bud! PAY ATTENTION to how the press is crucifying her for what she DIDNT SAY! These are many who use the same tactics on Dubya!

And I dont know what Rush has to say on it, but his next show should be good. And if I disagree with him on the attacks on Hillary, dont think I wont say so... and throw appropriate rocks.

I said when this forum started that 49% of americans DONT LIKE HER, and for the same reason I didnt.. but THIS IS OUTRAGIOUS!

ANY OF YOU who listen to Olbermann should be ashamed of yourself.

I posted on TalkLeft, and I'll repeat it here.... "How does it feel to be a 'Virtual Republican'?"!!!!!!

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Added: In response to below, and above...
Well, ACTUALLY, this isnt the first such marriage in the White House. There were perhaps some prior, but the most similar might be Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt.
Or John and Jackie Kennedy
So it's HARDLY '21st century'.

In fact I'd submit this paradigm will become MORE rare, whereas in the past the little lady has had the option of keeping her mouth shut if she wanted to share the glory of the position.

It's a minor thing in the big picture, though... I'd prefer fidelity to country over fidelity to spouse IF I have to make a choice.

 

Except 99% of "realistic 21st century Americans" don't share the Clinton's wealth and power and all of the subsequent motivations that would be factored into whether or not to continue the union.

You may choose to excuse or justify it with the "everyone else is doing it" argument but that doesn't make it the type of marriage anyone should aspire to. The question is, if you have/had a daughter, is that the marriage you would choose for her? Is that the way you'd want a guy to treat her? Probably not.

Back to the topic of the thread, the candidates have had a long time in the spotlight. Given that much time to spin, they're bound to find something to resonate at some point. But gaining empathy and garnering a vote are distinctly different.

 

Whether Obama, Clinton, or McCain is elected, our country was founded on the idea that once the electoral decision is made, you live with it. Yes, I hear jokes about the Florida and the 2000 election being dusted off, if you are doing that, try to control yourself.

My point is this: Too often in this country, the office of the presidency is disrespected. The conservatives did this a number of times when Clinton was in office and even worse, when he was overseas. Bush has had this happen sites like the Daily Kos, by a number of other liberal commentators who are promoting their interests over those of the country. Your president is not Charlton Heston, as the bumper sticker said. Even in the Army, when our esteemed Commander in Chief was squandering his moral authority by chasing the tail of interns while he should have been behaving like a grown man and a leader, we still had to remember that as painful as it was to ignore or pass up, he was still our President and we needed to respect him as such. Not everyone could do it. I remember some Air Force General making some crack about our president being a draft-dodging, cheating lowlife. I might be getting the details wrong, it isn't worth my time to research exactly what he said. Soon, he was gone -- forcibly retired. As well as he should have been.

Something will happen that will make the gasbags on the left and the right pretty upset in November. That includes everyone at the Kos, Ann Coulter, and that Savage character. Whether your horse in the race wins or loses, be sure to respect the process and the decision that is bigger and more important than your personal views. I am still waiting on Alec Baldwin to follow through on his threat to leave the country if Bush was reelected, it would certainly be no great loss.

Now, vent away on this thread. That is all.

 

KUDOS, Don... You ARE responding in specifics, finally. as opposed to dropping 'everyone knows...' bites. Never mind a lot of it's not exactly accurate, but it has a logical and provable base.

And never mind I started this is defense of Hillary and her campaign... and not just to promote 'Operation Chaos'.

But in the sum, it's all good.

 

Honestly Don I am way too lazy to go back and recount every incident of reputation squashing that Mrs. Clinton and her 'disbarred and impeached' husband were involved in, or had their minions take care of on their behalf. The only thing I can say positive about the Clintons is this; to their credit, they figured out a way to get around the 2 term limit (fortunatley we won't see it happen). They are one the most power driven couples I have ever seen, which can be a virtue I guess, they have stayed married (which I do respect) and Bill Clinton used to have a way with a crowd that was quite captivating however it seems to have lost it's magic now that we all know more about his personal habits.

I of course would have to support every incident I list with supporting factual references which would then be debated as to their validity and we would both still not agree........ I like you WAY too much to get into it. Their exploits are well Chronicled by people who are far smarter than I.

 

Not that you really want the help RR but here is a start;

Paula Jones

Jennifer Flowers

Forget the name but a female employee who claims he ruined her life

Arkansas prostitutes

Monica

All of the other people who were abused to keep the above quiet

attitudes like this:

Vince Foster

Whitewater

Mark Rich