NFL 2014-15

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by dcheather, May 9, 2014.

  1. dcheather

    dcheather Administrator

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    So, how does Mr. Ag feel about Mr. Football going to the Browns? And what's the story about him falling so low in the draft?
     
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  2. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    While we're waiting on Matt, I'll weigh in with some sideline comments, having watched the Browns situation for over 50 years.

    I blame Art Modell. Or maybe Paul Brown. Brown was far from the perfect executive, but there's no denying he is what made the franchise {no, it's not named for him}
    When Modell refused to give Brown a piece of the franchise, the die was cast. that is if you believe at all in Karma.

    And I live in a unique area of Ohio to watch things unfold. There is a large contingent of Browns fans here in SW ohio, less than an hours drive from Bengals turf. I suspect there was a loud eruption of joy from trailer parks everywhere in the Dayton/ Springfield environs when they got Manziel. {Mind I'm not describing the typical Browns fan, just the ones in this area.}
    If he cant resurrect the Browns' glory, it will never happen, as I point out above.
     
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  3. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

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    ESPN was doing cart wheels and somersaults every pick that went by and Johnny Football was still sitting in the Green Room. The kid moves the meter, the draft had it's highest ever ratings and Manziel going undrafted for awhile is the reason.

    Combination of things on why he dropped:
    • Size: Russell Wilson was a top 10 talent 2 years ago, but because he is short he didn't go until round 3. Manziel is under 6' which immediately has teams downgrade him. Throw in Manziel's playing style w/his size and it lends itself to questions about his durability. SEE JAGS below.
    • Off the field issues: His last year wasn't exactly smooth after winning the Heisman until the season started, and that's putting it nicely. NFL teams want their QBs boring (first to the building, last to leave, and not seen publicly unless it's for a team function or charity).
    • Competition: Unusual draft w/lots of QBs. Every expert has 7-10 of the same names, but rarely in the same order.
    • Team Needs: Once Minnesota didn't pick him at 9, you knew he was dropping until the 20's (despite the hysteria about a possible Dallas pick at 16) because all those teams in between have their franchise QB.

    JAGS: Mr. Khan's team stepped out on a limb and chose Blake Bortles with the 3rd pick of the draft. He is a prototypical NFL QB in terms of size and athletic ability. However, so was Blaine Gabbert and that set back the Jags for years. Bortles will likely have a clipboard in his hand and watch on the sidelines for a year because even his college coach acknowledged he isn't ready to step right in and start. He must be developed and brought along slowly. They could of had a ready made star at wide receiver in Sammy Watkins or the top linebacker in Khalid Mack who will contribute right away. In other words they took a big gamble.
     
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  4. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    As a Ravens fan, I was hoping he'd go somewhere else. Before the season was over, I'd said that he'd land in Cleveland so I'm not surprised. The Browns had a contingent of scouts, coaches, execs and former players at every A&M game this year. So I knew they were very high on him.

    One thing is for certain, Cleveland Browns football just became much watch tv and got a whole lot more exciting. Johnny brings that. He just has this amazingly unique, creative aspect to his play and he's able to pull it off. I don't doubt his talent, his competitiveness or his heart. And he's made great strides in improving his game and developing it to better fit the pros in his time at A&M. The greatest strides have come in his offseason work with qb guru George Whitfield who he's worked for several years now. In that time, Johnny has gone from reading 1-2 progressions and taking off downfield to staying in the pocket and going through his reads. He had the highest accuracy % of all qb's in the pocket. When he did take off, it was less downfield and more to move the pocket and extend the play. His passing yardage went up by over 1000 yds while his rushing numbers went down. So he's adapting. He did skip progressions and go for the homerun and took risks that he'll need to cut back on at the next level. I believe that was a byproduct of his trying to carry one of the worst defenses in the NCAA. At the next level, I think he'll do that. When we had leads this year, he dialed it back and stayed within the construct of the offense. He was willing to go out of bounds or throw the ball out of bounds when it wasn't there. In his first year, he didn't do that much.

    The off field stuff was overhyped nonsense. Could he have been smarter, sure, what 19-21 year old couldn't? But this era of twitter and instagram makes everything instant and affords little room to hide. I suspect there are a number of Hall of Famers who are glad their playing days pre-dated that crap.

    I have two major concerns about Johnny at the next level. First is durability. He's deceptively strong and he's been pretty good at avoiding big contact, but he's not that big. He's going to have to slide more and know when to let go of a losing play. He didn't finish either season at A&M without being dinged up. And being dinged up to the point that it hurt his play. The other is Cleveland. There are a handful of franchises that can't seem to get out of their own way and the Browns are one of them imo. If I'm not mistaken, they've had 3 head coaches in 3 seasons and have had almost as much turnover in the front office. That said, I do like the fit with Kyle Shanahan and the Browns have some nice players and weapons on offense.

    Now why did he fall? I think it was a combination of things. There wasn't a sure fire headline qb (like Luck) to drag the class up. Also, teams have been burned recently reaching up for qb's. A number of those (Minn-Ponder, Tenn-Locker, Jax-Gabbert, Cle-Weedon) were the teams that needed a qb from this draft. Then you have the old school mentality about what a qb looks like. Interesting stat in the NFL last year, qb's 6'3 and above had more balls batted at the line of scrimmage than qb's 6'2 and under. Yet, many football people still covet that 6'4 240 lb qb. And lastly, I think Cleveland had a good read on the market and avoided over-reaching...

    ...unlike Jacksonville. Bortles? At 3?!?!? What a stupid pick! Blake Bortles will be a bust. Small hands, weak arm, poor mechanics and played against inferior competition for the most part. They've already come out and said that he won't start this season. And this from a franchise that has it's upper deck tarped. From a franchise whose Orlando affiliate issued a public apology for having to switch from a national game to the Jags game. And this is the franchise owned by the guy that we're counting on to turn Fulham around? Yikes.

    Look, I think Manziel can be a pro bowl qb if he can stay healthy and in the right system. Whether or not that happens with the Browns remains to be seen. But one thing is certain, he'll electrify the fanbase in Cleveland and they'll be fun to watch.

    I'm curious what the reaction is going to be to the Lebron stuff? He is represented by his marketing company.
     
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  5. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

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    Matt and I agree about Bortles except I said it diplomatically and Matt went double barrels. The biggest problem with Bortles is it's going to be 2-3 seasons before you even know if the kid can play :shock: Watkins and Mack will be at the top of the list for rookie of the year on offense and defense. Khan is a hands off owner, he hires and fires the football decision makers (for both clubs) and puts them in charge so this pick is an indictment of the GM/Coach. Who will Khan entrust w/making those decisions at Fulham.
     
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  6. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

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    yeah but the team changed ownership too. the new owner tried some stuff and then decided to scrap it and start over. I don't follow the Browns or football very closely but those here that do think the owners latest house cleaning of the front office was what was really needed all along.

    Cleveland picked qb's Weedon and Brady Quinn both at #22 (like Manziel) and both were failures. Is that a bad omen or is the 3rd time is the charm? I know Quinn was no Manziel but that was a pick very much wanted by Browns fan base and similarly hyped.

    Browns fans don't need to be electrified by anyone, they are already awesomely rabid fans. What they do need is hope, confidence, and for Johnny Football to become Johnny Superbowl. The first two have already happened at least temporarily.

    As far as Lebron, there are two rumors for what it's worth. The first - yesterday people were saying the building downtown that used to have a gigantic banner of Lebron with "we are all witnesses" written on it now had a similar banner of Johnny Manziel. It wasn't true but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see one in the future given Lebron and Manziel's bidness relationship. The second - Lebron will come back to play in Cleveland but not as a Cav. Instead he'll play for the Browns as Johnny Manziels wide receiver. He was a star football player in high school and, however serious, has said he wants to play in the NFL someday.

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvmALPg9Cmk[/youtube]
     
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  7. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    Khan has already cleaned house once at Jacksonville. As a result, their failures are an indictment of him as well now. Obviously this stuff is an inexact science and you need time to properly evaluate it. But it's already looking questionable and that makes me nervous.

    Mo, I LOVE the dog pound and have nothing but respect for their fans and their ability to be so passionate and loyal without being given a whole lot to cheer for. By electrify, I was referring to the hope and belief you mentioned. That said, A&M has an awesome, passionate fanbase as well and it went to another level with Johnny on the field. I did read where Cleveland said they sold over 500 season tickets/renewals within minutes of the pick.

    I didn't like Quinn or Weedon coming out of college. Not even a little bit. So hopefully 3rd time's the charm at 22.

    Back to the qb's. The only other one I like is Carr. I think he's better than his brother was. He's the football equivalent of a gym rat and his arm is sick. Bridgewater's college career reminds me a lot of Geno Smith's. I think he'll be an okay pro, but probably in the bottom 10-12 qb's every year at best. With Peterson and a good defense, that may be enough for the team to have some success though. I'm not big on any dark horses, but if I had to pick one it would be Aaron Murray.

    Oh yeah, glad to see Jerry Jones resist temptation. Of course, that terrible contract he gave Romo kind of forced his hand. But that was the last place I wanted to see Manziel go, both for him and the team. Not that I hold much hope for the team as long as Jones is in charge. Joe won't like this, but there was a small part of me that was hoping the Iggles would take him. Imagine the potential for excitement with that one.
     
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  8. astroevan

    astroevan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Joe regarding Manziel. No teams like off the field issues or small QBs.

    I agree with Matt regarding previous players that are glad they didn't play during the internet era but I have to ask, what other players drafted last night had similar off field issues? The other 31 picks are also living and playing in the instant era but I don't recall seeing any pictures of Clowney flashing a wad of 100 dollar bills in a Vegas casino.
     
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  9. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

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    Astro, I think Matt just likes the bad boys. Here is part of the Patriot's scouting report on Manziel:
    Between this and Josh Gordon being suspended, it's looking more and more like the Browns are still the Browns. The fans had one day of happiness and celebration. "Outlaw bloodlines" LOL. Who says "outlaw" anymore?
     
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  10. AggieMatt

    AggieMatt Well-Known Member

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    No, I really don't have an affinity for the bad boys. Quite the opposite usually.

    OMG, he went gambling...and took pictures? Really?!? That's what we're calling off-field issues?

    Look, this kid went from redshirted 4th string qb to starter to beating Bama to being the first freshman to ever win the Heisman, in the space of 1 year. And along the way he became big box office. He didn't do that, people gravitated to him because he was the most exciting player in college football. Heroes of his like Drake and LeBron James reached out to him. You'd pass on that? You'd suggest any player would ignore that? As a result of becoming box office, he started getting TMZ coverage. So, in 4 months, he goes from unknown outside of College Station (aside from his relatively local high school legend status in Kerrville and South Texas) to having people taking pictures of him everywhere he goes. That's one hell of an adjustment, and for my money, I think he did a pretty good job adjusting. Did he adjust immediately? Of course not. But he learned what he could and couldn't do and there weren't any off-field "embarrassments" this past season. He had the one issue with the signings and had to serve a 2 game suspension. Who else signed lots for that dealer? Clowney and Bridgewater. But b/c their lots were so much smaller, it wasn't an issue. And he got sent home from the Manning Academy that summer. Peyton later came out and said there was really nothing to it, that it was overblown and that he'd be welcomed back anytime b/c he was good with the campers. He also did a qb camp for Trent Dilfer, who praised his participation.

    To Mo's scouting report. Manziel had to switch to online classes b/c the kid couldn't go into a classroom without being mobbed by his classmates wanting pictures and crap (their behavior is the greater embarrassment to this Aggie). As for the rest of the scouting report, the only parts of that that I've heard in the B/CS grapevine are that he's rather spoiled and that his parents have little control over him. The rest of that is crap or out of context.

    Evan, to answer your question, how about Kelvin Benjamin? The 28th pick of the draft, could possibly start the season with a suspension for turning in a diluted sample for drug testing. How about Taylor Lewan, taken 11th by the Titans. Currently has 1 count of aggravated assault and 2 counts of assault and battery pending against him. He was also accused by a girl of threatening to rape her after her claims of sexual assault got his teammate kicked off the Michigan team. Brendan Roby of Ohio St was taken 31st. He plead guilty to physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence of drugs or alcohol after being found passed out in a parked car less than a month ago. Current Heisman winner Jameis Winston was accused of sexual assault and most recently got caught shoplifting crab legs. I could keep going with these, btw.
     
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  11. astroevan

    astroevan Well-Known Member

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    I realize that the majority of professional (and most college) athletes are not the most upstanding citizens. I also realize that Manziel has been under much more scrutiny than anyone else. I'm just still not convinced that he has the work ethic and team-first attitude that will lead to success. He seems very spoiled and self-centered. He'll be exciting to watch if I'm wrong. But if I'm right, say hello to Ryan Leaf Jr.

    BTW, you mentioned at least two players from FL and everyone knows that, Tim Tebow withstanding, all players from the major universities in FL are crooks, drug dealers, and/or felons so they don't count.
     
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  12. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    #12
  13. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    "Saving the NFL from what" is my immediate question, but all that aside, Ms. Rice is far too classy to be involved with the Jerry Jones's of the world.
     
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  14. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  15. SoCalJoe

    SoCalJoe Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting Fog, nice to see your son quoted. LA NFL fans stopped long ago believing a stadium will ever be built and are so accustomed to being used as leverage by other cities to even react to it anymore. The only thing that will get people interested (pro/con) is the notion of the Raiders moving back.
     
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  16. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    By far, the very best thing to come out of every NFL season.

     
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