True Patriots

In the most recent 5th of my life the term patriot has been redefined over and over again. I've become obsessed in arguements of late with the more intelligent of my piers trying to bring back that meaning or atleast have the origninal meaning reaffirmed.

I'll get to my point. For just under a year I've been involved in many aspects of my job. Policy analysis is now one of them. I've taken on as a curiousity the burden of finding out why there a so many high profile "tax evasionists" and what are their grounds. In about a year I found out many enlightening things to which have immediately come to public eye in the movie by Aaron Russo, AMERCIA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM. This well constructed production by the man who brought you TRADING PLACES with Eddie Murphy is a new direction for Mr. Russo. He won awards with this movie at CANNES but it never seemed to make it to the box office.

The main premise concerns itself with the lack of tax evasion laws by the IRS, consequences of violating them, and the apparent unconstitutionality of the whole situation. Since the issue is fairly complex i urge you to educate yourself and watch the movie. During the contents of this movie you'll find references to many supreme court cases and the constitution itself which will allow you do your own research and make up your own mind.

More importantly, and man named Ed Brown, a resident of New Hampshire has taken a stand. He urged a court who found him guilty of tax evasion to show him the law that states that it is mandatory to pay the federal income tax. The courts refused, and refused his defense. Upon the last day of his hearing and the previous throwing out of his options to defend himself and to analyse the law he made himself absent to the court and told all those who'd listen that if the government will not show him the law he will resist arrest, while on his own property and shoot any man willing to force him from his land.

The mainstream media barely covers this which is sad. Our freedom of the press has been compromised by loaded media stories and this guy deserves attention.

Show ME the law, because I know there isnt one... as I work her analysing policy...

Live Free or Die... now thats a policy...


www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /701220359

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7175242198

Open your mind... or the worst may come true.

 

Mr Russo and Mr Brown are real American heroes for standing up and taking a stand against the criminal IRS.


Here is an interview with Aaron Russo.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WWR04hT_V_E part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xffyuerwFa0 part 2

 

INCOME TAX IS UNLAWFUL

Literally...

I can't believe I get more feedback disagreeing with pettyfog than I do telling people that they can save 28% of their wages a year.

Watch out for a WACO like standoff with this guy... and he's not a separtist. I wonder how they will justify it this time.

 

RE: INCOME TAX IS UNLAWFUL

I been there, read that before... there's people in jail for following that advice, cost you way more in legal fees than you'll save on taxes.

Unless you're prepared to do your own legal work... and have you heard of any decent law firms doing pro bono on the issue?

 

RE: INCOME TAX IS UNLAWFUL

Thats part of the oddity here... most times this is presented in a court the Judge threatens the counsel, which according to my lawyer girlfriend seems ridiculous. But its a happened in the case of Irwin Schiff, in which Mr. Schiff actually fired his lawyer during proceedings after she said she fear professional reprecussions from the judge and perhaps the bar.

When I read that I wondered what country it happend in... but to my surprise it was in Las Vegas.

Here is the 16th amendment and all the footnotes and statutes as a result.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/cons ... /01.html#2

You dont have to be a genius to understand most of it...

As far a law firms? Well, I know there has been plenty of winners on the felony side of the law, but I'm not sure if anyone has won tax immunity in a sense...

sorry, for the lack of a more attractive source, but I offer this:

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/8-12-0 ... gi.34.html

this case also holds a great quote from the judge, "SIR, I do not work for the IRS."

There is also case of Gaylon "Whitey" Harrell whom won a state tax evasion case based on the lack of a Federal Law.

Pro Bono: http://www.beatirs.com/ run by Donal McPherson, who is as far as I can find the most high profile of tax honesty advocates... and he does pro bono work as long, of course, as its high profile enough.

Whats interesting is the number of IRS Agents and Officers who've resigned from the IRS based on the principals we are discussing. Joe Banister being one whose actually won a case after leaving his previous profession.

Wikipedia has since taken down a "tax honesty" page since I've started researching... which strikes me as odd, and it redirects to "tax protestor". Classic.

 

RE: INCOME TAX IS UNLAWFUL

And what you have done is illustrate my point.

This is the perfect conflict of interest scenario. No tax law attorney who wants a comfortable future will touch a case if it's not a really BIG one.

If he wins a little one, it will do his resume no good. If he loses a big one on precedent, whether he made his case or not, it will hurt him tremendously.

Neil Boortz' fair tax would solve all this, of course, but it will only come about IF enough of those tax patriots win.

Meanwhile the Guvmint has the perfect storm at its beck and call. It is in absolutely no government officials interest, elected or not, to suddenly have the IRS revenue stream dry up.

How are they going to buy their votes?

Nor is it in any law or accountant firm's interest... so I suggest you try a more practical method and start boosting that "Fair Tax" and rebut the idiots who call it 'Unfair Tax".

There would still be business for the lawyers and accountants... and the taxes would be right there where you can see and calculate them.

http://fairtaxgroups.com/

 

Yes legal or not I have to say a country without tax revenue is rather unpractical. As much crap as the goverment does it is NEEDED and provides alot of benefit which people take for granted all the time.

 

And do I have to remind all of you that everytime a legislator writes a 'tax-simplification' bill, it winds up being more complicated than ever by the time it's passed?

One notable one was introduced by then OH Senator (and lib-Dem, natcherly) Howard Metzenbaum... Father-in-law of H&R Block owner Joel Hyatt.

Many yucks were had inside the beltway on that one.

{Uh... no... if Hyatt had married some GOP Senator's dottir, then THAT guy would probably have written the bill}

Just sayin...

 

Ironically the United states doesnt filter its income tax revenue, meaning the alleged unconstitutional part, to anything apparently. Corporate taxes, pay for wars, streets are paved with gas taxes, etc. Apparently the income tax revenue pays the interest we owe to the world bank for loans we've taken or keep taking for high business ventures.

Petty is right, the worst thing about legislation of "more fair" taxes is that if you're above the tax (lobbyists, officials, politicians), meaning, you dont feel the sting of such a burden cuz you make ALOT of money then you have no interest in fielding a bill like this. It would actually make their life difficult, and rich folks in power dont like that.

Libertarians wont even touch them and that says alot. The united states functioned for 150 years on the back of its big business and apportioned tax which as the population grows so does the budget.

Keep in mind, we are talking about Federal Tax... State tax is perfectly constitutional because it enables you to move if you dont like being taxed. Back when we had the little "U" in "united STATES of AMERICA", the states would loan the federation money if it was in the national interest... but since 1923 and beyond the federal socialization of our great country has enabled the government to stockpile cash in trusts to do with how they feel.

It just feels unsettling that this all grows from wanting to see a simple law if it exists. As Petty and I have demonstrated if you educate yourself on the subject there really is one common ground on the issue. Fairness. But in this case the boss is whoever has all the guns.

The goverment collects plenty in taxes, but its not supposed to be taxing everyone all the time. The billions of dollars that americans pay can cover almost all our expenses and on top of that if I had that other 1/3 of my wages I'd be buying stock and eventually being taxed on captial gains, and I'd be spending more stimulating some section of American big business that would eventually be taxed.

It would actually bring the middle class back to give them some of their income tax money and we move the most cash.

I'm a firm, somewhat niave, believer that the system was good before, not perfect, but close to great.

 

Just one thing.. there really is NO SUCH THING as a 'Corporate tax'.

No matter how they word it, it's either a tax on the consumer of the company's goods and services.... OR a double tax on the company stockholder.

think about it.. there's no easy answer is there!

But I dont get the 'filter' comment... "Roads are paved with gas taxes" because that's how it's stipulated.. at least for now. Unlike Great Britain where the gas taxes go into the general revenue.

 

I dont understand how my point about a alleged income tax fraud has anything to do with me supporting troops. I hate this war, but I love any man I've grown up with whose over there fighting... Funny you bring up bonds tho... because those who bought bonds were supporters of war. We dont have the luxury of directly funding wars from our pockets which in this wars budget would have dwindled and long time ago.

Our standing army days are new. Until a few years into WWI and II we lead a 150 year long isolationist policy that did pretty well... afterall we got this far. Direct requests for charity were the basis of the PEOPLE supporting wars. And it is a luxury, because now we have to wait to find out if the purses will be empty for the next two years of war based on congresses discrestion, NOT OURS REGARDLESS IF I PAY TAXES, and since the war is widely unpopular do you think we would still buy those bonds if they were available? Not likely.

I love how i get slammed for not caring about the maimed and the dying as if before the tax honesty movement the goverment was spending nearly enough on body armor, and armored vehicles.

NEVER doubt my patriotism. For first of all, it was never and will be never in question and my blind paying of taxes is in debate whether or not these people have a point... and its not about the TAXES... its about the fair trial... so when you start review MY work as i see it everday then you can insult my views.

Its sad, because I'm being slammed on a war topic not the tax topic here... something i would firmly expect form Petty, who usualy beats me up... but i respect him for entertaining my position here. I've almost never had a crossed view with you Don, and didnt expect you to have anything but a witty comment for this post. So, so far I'm 0 for 2 on the expected response predictions.

Remind me again how much of my tax dollars have made medical treatment free, or cheap for that matter, how many farms we've saved with those tax dollars, or how NASA has done so much for my everyday living situation.

How is it everytime someone comes up with an idea, or an arguement for arguements sake they get slammed for hating the troops... the war and the troops are not the same... and implying so is ridicuous.

Petty... what I meant was that the money the gov't collects from taxes has no allocation until after its collected. Infastructure is paid for by taxes on goods and services, and state taxes...

In the end its spent on war making and nation building, even the money you contribute to SS,... and paying off the debt made by TAX CUTS... yeah I got a tax cut... 2% of my salary... whooooooooo, lemme guess, this is permanent, or do you think that I might get my taxes raised again sometime soon?

We used to live in union of states... but that time has long since disappeared, although the literature is still there. Once upon a time people spoke with their pockets as well as thier voices and the bigger the gov't gets the less control we have. The point Ed Brown is trying to make is not that they are taking his life and his money, but that they are using it for means that he doesnt not support. I know the response to this one... If you dont like it, move... right? The man is getting charge with a felony for not paying a tax that has the words VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE next to it.

I suppose I should just shut up and watch the news so i can see how my money is being spent. Excuse me for trying to discuss what millions of American believe. Are you going to tell me next that I've abandoned my buddies over there by not being next to them on the battlefield?

 

I over reacted Don and I apologize...

I implore you to watch the above movie. I enjoy discussing these things with, especially, the two of you. Its a bigger issue than taxes... thats what I keep failing to mention and rather than see another Ruby Ridge, or Waco, it would be nice if people respected a man who is willing to die for his rights.

Rather than edit my last post, I'm worthy of critizism like the rest of us. Feel free.

 

I, being a young man, all of 28, still am tangling with where i am in the diamond of politics... libertarian sounds nice... but I still have no clue...(definately not a centrist, definately not a socialist, most definately not a republican...).

Obviously, it shouldnt matter and doesnt in the long haul. My taxes too pay for NPR . Not because my views are liberal, but because having all private and all corporate media is a bad idea.

So... in short... if the income tax were to be repealed, I would expect the city and state taxes to be higher. In a perfect world this would give power back to the states and somehow, with a pinch of pixie dust, relieve us of authoritarian types of approaches to all the nations problems. The greater good would have to come about, which in most cases is dead without coercion.

I'm still just interested in seeing that damned law.... or seeing someone like Mr. Brown get the trial, nationally, in the supreme court, to answer this question once and for all.

I'm also sorry, and pardon me too.

Its a tough one... "-- equally emotional and equally supportable -- ".

 

Im also young and most of my views are liberal, but some are conservative like gun control and immigration. Being able to own a gun is one of the biggest rights we have in this country and if we lose it as citizens we are powerless. Illegal immigration has to stop or it will destroy the middle class in this country.