Torture Techniques Revealed!!!!!

From the Guardian of Western Civilization!

* Induced hypothermia
* Forcing suspects to stand for prolonged periods
* Sleep deprivation
* The "attention grab" where a suspect's shirt is forcefully seized
* The "attention slap" or open hand slapping that hurts but does not lead to physical damage
* The "belly slap"
* Sound manipulation
* Light manipulation

Oh, the HORROR! If those poor detainees wanted that, they would surely have signed up for Army or Marines special forces training... or applied at a Fraternity.

And that doesnt even mention the loss of self-esteem if ANY technique causes them to spill the beans!

And that is the worst humiliation of all, isnt it!

 

We could make them watch Chelski games nonstop, but that would certainly be a human rights violation.

 

Would you want any of these done to your kid by an opposing army? Apparently when it's someone else's kid it's ok.

And somehow waterboarding didn't make the list... but our President says that one is ok, too... or maybe we should ask that Canadian journalist about his time in Syria...

C'mon Fog... even you have to see how far we've slipped as a country that it's ok that we are having a discussion about "what is ok when it comes to torture".

 

That is unbelievable... no, i'd rather have my kid bound, blindfolded and on his knees in front of a line of hooded masked 'inquisitors' and have the video shown around the world.

Waterboarding IS okay... even those who undergo it are sure that they aint gonna die, save the odd accident. But the body's instincts are certainly powerful.

Now... I dont know or remember- how old you are but to think we are 'descending to this type of torture' is just blindfolding yourself to the realities of the past.
And you MIGHT consider that 'shining more light on methods' just provides the incentive to leave as little evidence as practical.

I know it is hard for you to believe but your ideals and your compassion are going to result in the deaths of perhaps hundreds of thousands of innocents around the world.
And most of them muslim.

Every time you read something in the Guardian or NY Times that you find comforting in your viewpoint... the thugs like Acchhmini-jihad and Chavez are thinking the same.

I think you better wake up, Landshark... stick your finger in the wind. Are you gonna be saying that when the Mullah's men come to your door? They wont just go away, like Jehovah's Witnesses.
But it wont happen to you... before it comes to that, those who hold your same views as a result of unthinkingly accepting academic indoctrination and PC... then when they are disillusioned, react with unthinking vengeance.
Think 'Lynch Mob'!

I dont expect you to listen to any conservative like Rush or me...but I suggest you listen a little closer to what Ed Shultz is REALLY saying! It's in there..and he's getting REALLY worried.

I dont listen to him a whole lot.. but that makes the change in how he views the core issues of the war on terror all that more striking.

 

Uh oh... time to be afraid of those brown people who believe something that we don't agree with! Must be afraid! Time to rile up votes!

And I'd like to see an actual demonstration of the waterboarding process... let's put an administration official on TV, I don't care who it is... put some lowly staff intern from the White House on the board, show it to the country and let's see how well it's accpted... if it's not happening to you, apparently it's ok.

I'm not debating the fact that we are facing a signficant long-term challenge of protecting the interests of our nation. What I am concerned with is the means with which we have opted to protect those interests.

Condi Rice's report on human rights violations is meaningless when we, as a country, have endorsed similar behaviour by ourselves and our allies.

At what point did the evangelicals who claim to be such firm believers in the literal word of the bible begin to view as ok the actions of those who tortured Jesus and his disciples? Let's face it, crucifixion isn't exactly a painless means of interrogation... nor is flogging... at least in Mel Gibson's version of how it happened... The current administration has made the argument that "We haven't done it before, but because we're now on a crusade against an enemy that uses disturbing tactics it's now ok"... At what point is it too much? We've engaged on a slippery slope! Next it'll be ok to systematically pull out a captive's pubic hairs until he talks...

 

John McCain and a few unfortunate others are the ones whose opinions mean the most to me on this issue.

For Republicans to paint the picture of us yelling at alleged terrorists and giving them pink bellies is the ultimate in considering the public a bunch of ignorant fools.

For you, Petty, to think along those lines is to consider us here at FUSA the same. I personally think we have a pretty smart bunch here, and they apparently have no problem seeing through your attempts to justify an extremely questionable practice. There must be rules for this type of practice, and the Republicans do not get to make all of them because they think they are tougher on terrorists.

 

RE: Re: RE: Torture Techniques Revealed!!!!!

I GET IT!!!!

I have ALWAYS GOT THAT!

But it's STUPID and it will not last... Because it is that belief, which is well pointed out in Bin Laden's fatwas, that is at the core of Middle Eastern strife. We are fighting those who hold that that belief is a weakness. and that it will result in them getting anything they want, just look at the cartoon, and now the Pope foofs!

"Mere survival"... how noble of you to sacrifice the most civilized world society ever known for your personal ideals.

 

RE: Re: RE: Torture Techniques Revealed!!!!!

Don... each and every bit of that is pure BULLSHIT!

INCLUDING holding John McCain up as the ultimate authority. How much time did he spend in a cage in the boonies?

Everyone in the Hanoi Hilton was there primarily for the PR aspect.

We ARENT fighting the North Vietnamese! They were a national entity.. and influenced by western civilization.

We are fighting people that are more like the KKK, or survivalist kooks... and they see not ONE thing wrong with exploiting our ideals to get what they want.... and doing it by instilling fear of death. But they dont fear death... or do they?
\
ANd using Abu Ghraib is EXACTLY what they want.

What they want is for YOU to feel revulsion... because YOUR life is soft. They laughed themselves silly, not at the schlups that actually did it... but at the MSM for making such a big deal of it.


WTF CANT you people use what you've learned in life in dealling with other people and apply it to your 'geo-politics'!!!!??????

Havent you EVER been taken advantage of?

 

RE: Re: RE: Torture Techniques Revealed!!!!!

I define it as NOT Islamic Feudalism.

I t does mateer.. because it is how we react to it that enables them, notice them throwing a tantrum over increasingly lesser slights?

Remind you of anything from your childhood and teenage years?

Keep your head in the sand... we're talking life and death of millions here.

 

Sometimes Non Sequitor is just so relevant...

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/nonsequitur

 

That's awesome!

 

Your unbelievable pfog. You never fail to apologize for anything this administration does regardless of circumstances. Your worst tactic by far is the demeaning of anyone who happens to have an opposing view point. Apparently McCain’s opinion isn’t worth anything because he was only tortured by the North Vietnamese.
Gessh duh why didn't I think of that. I mean GW and Rumie are clearly the best judge on this issue as they were tortured by the ..................what you mean neither of them has ever set foot on a battlefield????

 

What's this about me and George Washington?

Yes, this post is meant as a joke; just for fun. carry on now...

 

The point I was making is that the Hanoi Hilton was not only a POW detention site, but a PR piece for Hanoi, and that North Vietnam was heavily invested in European Culture. That said, there were a lot of Prisoners that never made it out of the tiger cages in the boonies.. they had it a lot harder... thus the name "Hanoi Hilton".
And he certainly deserves a say and more weight than the typical Pol on the subject.

For the same reason Murtha isnt and should never be the Secretary of Defense. 'Middle East quick-reaction force in Okinawa'... yeah, and I never had military command duties either but I know THAT is idiotic. For TWO reasons.. evidently Murtha was unaware that Okinawans want less of us there, not more.

Back to the first point:

Have had plenty of bones to pick with Dubya, among 'em:

- The prescription bill, lots of tax revenue spent going the wrong direction, main winner the drug companies.

- not looking at FBI closely and having no one to replace the CIA director, though that was only obvious in hindsight.

- putting up a texas crony and white house lawyer for the Supreme Court, seemingly out of spite.

- no one on staff, meaning lack of heavy hitter, to deal with Congress.

- continuing to appoint bureacrat types to DHS and key domestic security posts.

- not putting boots on ground in Louisiana re Katrina. His reason for NOT going certainly backfired.

- Failure to communicate. Dubya obviously has a communications disorder.. I bet dyslexia.. his best efforts ALWAYS resulting from off-the cuff remarks.
This could have been fixed in other ways but no one seemed to have a clue or any creativity. There's more like Tony Snow.

- his bassackwards proposal for the immigration problem. UNBELIEVABLE!* And good for 15 points in his negative approval. Though I think I know WHY he wants a lot of hispanics in US.. falls under positivist conspiracy theory. If that is the case, i want 'em here too.

 

Now...I am going to address the two cores of contention in this thread:

Which is that we must hold ourselves to higher standards and that 'extreme discomfort' interrogation doesnt work anyway.

The first assumes we are in some sort of global debate. Whoever looks better and more moral at the end, wins.

- the only problem is that if we win, we get the trophy posthumously. And there is no one else left, daring to applaud our ethics.

Anyone who thinks this is just a battle for hearts and minds not only ignores history of treaties in the middle east, but ignores global news and published statements of the adversary, to sum up; convert to Islam or die.

It's good to see some here would rather die than sink to their level, but then they havent yet opened the door to see the debate team, holding "Islamic Watchtower" in one hand and a jagged scimitar in the other.
And what right do any of us have putting everyone else's life and well-being in jeopardy to satisfy our moral compass?

That folks, is the 'elephant in the room'.

Second, on the precept that 'those dont work, anyway'...

Besides the overwhelming evidence, anecdotal and OTHER WISE, that they ARE working...
I would certainly hope that those involved wouldnt be wasting their time on techniques they know dont work.
And that argument also assumes that there's just a bunch of guys standing around grilling the perp, and then taking a vote on whetehr he's telling the truth.
I think it's a LITTLE more sophisticated than that.

Perhaps the fault lies in the Administration's lack of communication with both sides of the issue... but why should they give the supporting facts and events proving their case to those with a record of deciding for themselves what is, and is not, a matter of national security?
Look up Leahy's past.
Think about the NY Times doing that.

The administration's opponents have proven over and over that they will not keep their mouths shut. I assume, of course, that most Democrats would... but it only takes one.

Now the precept of Government in the society is that it assumes roles and tasks that private citizens and organizations either cannot provide or cant be trusted to provide.
The first, last, and overwhelmingly most important task is to protect the Nation.

The purpose of the Executive is to carry out those tasks as it sees fit, and sometimes the only practical oversight is that after the fact, often WAY after the fact.

But that's only common sense in any other time. This time the hate and discontent against Bush and the bunch blinds some to even the most elemental common sense.

There ARE people out there, folks, that oppose Bush's domestic policies, each and every one, but support him on this... but when that guy dares say so, he is cut off at the knees and ridiculed for that alone.

And you need only look at Lieberman's case to see that.

No... you guys keep on calling me everything short of racist, it isnt going to matter.. and i'll point out what i think. But i'll never succumb to the 'Kum-bay-yah" faction that thinks you can negotiate with these thugs.

Some even claim I've dissed a 'minority religion'... I'll have you know I only used Jehovah's Witnesses as an illustrative point. And I never said ANYTHING against Jews as a religion.