The McClellan Book

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by HatterDon, May 29, 2008.

  1. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    In case anyone's wondering about the strength of the White House insider outrage at the book, as well as the breadth of it, here's an idea why. It isn't because the book concentrates on the "closed-room" nature of White House insiders making policy with a limited range of input. That's been well known from vice-president Cheney's "secret energy summit" in early 2001. It's not the relevation that White House insiders cherry-picked intelligence to reinforce their positions on world situations, or that they dealth with all matters as if they were in election campaign mode rather than national governance mode. It's not even the reportage about the run-up to the Iraq war identifying the strategy of treating armed invasion as the ONLY option. And it's not even the timing of the book -- coming as it does while the White House and their media buddies are using the same tactics to make a case for their position that the ONLY choice for the "Iran problem" is war.

    No, what has gotten the collective White House West Wing knickers in a similarly collective twist is this: scholarly books about ex-presidents, and the historical evaluation of their administrations depend largely on two sources -- daily internal White House notes and communications, and the published reports of White House insiders. The problem now is that the current administration has stamped classification markings on most of the original source documents, and historians have to depend to an even larger extent on secondary sources. Scott McClellan was "present at the creation" and, as such, his book will go a long way in the historical evaluation that the president has repeatedly said will vindicate him and his performance.

    That's why the administration spokesmen are so pissed.
     
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  2. Spencer

    Spencer Active Member

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    No worries, Bush's defenders will always be able to furnish excuses and explain why what appears to be so is not actually so. Why despite what your eyes and your brain tells you he actually is a great president. It'll probably be the historians fault, perhaps the liberal media's fault, or maybe even the French again.
     
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  3. Bradical

    Bradical Member

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    While I don't think that anything new will come out of McClelland's book (hello, I think we knew we were being lied to several years ago), I do applaud and think that it is important for anyone and everyone to be outraged by the current administration, to the point that future leaders think of Bush's failures everytime that they try to pull one over on Americans. More than anything, it is the apathy (in addition to blind conservative faith and reactionary defensive tactics) of Americans in the face of Bush's oppression that disappoints me. Worst administration ever? Yes - but only if future ones aren't worse.
     
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  4. nevzter

    nevzter Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I want to applaud McClelland or punch him in the mouth upon sight.

    Now that these aides see the ship sinking, they're coming out with the "truth," but what irks me to no end is where was this nobility while our Constitution was being shat upon? I'm waiting for C. Powell - a man I thought could be president - to comment (and if he has already, can I get links?).

    Also, this is just another link in the treason chain...notice NOBODY at the White House has denied the information, simply spun it off as "sad" and "confusing."
     
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  5. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    What a Lib parrot load of crap, Don. You are hugely astute on just about anything to do with sports or the human psychological syndrome... but when it comes to politics it's like you turn it off.... I have no freakin idea how you segment your brain.

    It is exactly what it looks like. Recycled talking points with only political talking points and no depth, no explanation how McClellan was 'evil', incompetent, and a deer in the headlights, and alla sudden he's a hero?

    Look for the money. Look who's giving him the money. Look at his options, OTHERWISE.

    I say again... what do you think of Doug Feith's book... there WAS an insider.

    Hell, look at the opening of the NYT editorial:
    The latter? seems to me, that anyone would have to admit, it's all three!
    A perfect storm.

    Oh, the NYT writer goes on to assume everything McClellan says is proabbly true... but then they wont talk about Doug Feith's book which has all the same tropes available, but explains the decision process a LOT more factually and has documentation to boot.

    SM has none of these... he claims to be an 'insider' but then complains of being 'shut out' from the beginning? Which is it?

    I suggest you think back on episodes of 'West Wing'. I always thought they covered decision processes pretty much the way it would have to be done.
     
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  6. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    This knee-jerk crap from you gets tedious, 'fog. Go back and read what I wrote. I didn't cheer McClellan's book. I didn't deal much with the substance. What I talked about was why the White House insiders and their media acolytes -- and you're one -- have reacted so strongly.

    The same would be true of any administration. When any DEEP insider [and please don't pretend that Feith was more inside than McClellan. I doubt whether the president knew his name until recently] publishes a book this critical of the presidency he served under, that book is going to go a long way towards shaping the historical view of that administration -- something that the current president is very concerned about.

    I didn't say anything pro Liberal or anti conservative in the post. YOU, on the other hand, had nothing to say about the substance or accuracy of what I posted, rather, you chose to attack some Liberal talking points that I didn't make.

    Here's an idea, if you have nothing of substance to say about something someone posts, then resist the temptation to attack. Or just read and don't post, like I do in threads about the NHL or computer stuff I don't understand.

    Tedious, tedious, tedious.
     
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  7. nevzter

    nevzter Well-Known Member

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    Most likely, McCledude could of earned far greater wealth working within some lobbying / think-tank for the rest of his years than with his book. That said, his motivations have to be called into question b/c of the timing of his book. Also, Feith's book isn't even relevant to this issue unless it is being used to support calling McClellan a liar b/c it did not address any allegations of criminal behavior.

    Somebody is not telling the truth in this situation, and it is highly suspect that nobody within the current administration is calling McClellan a liar. Further, I watched Ari "you better watch what you say and do" Fleischer refuse to call him a liar upon a direct question by L. King last night.

    The declassification of info, an alleged leak, the executive directive to lie to the people, the criminal trial, the conviction and then...the pardon. But, there cannot be an improper connection in the aforementioned events, right?
     
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  8. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    You GOT to be kidding! McClellan was as inside as Feith?!!!

    Feith sat in on policy brainstorming and presented papers on intelligence and policy. McClellan didnt do that. He was a PR flack, and let in on the decision and how it might be handled, once it was made.

    And McClellan wasnt very good at his job, anyway... you want to dispute THAT?
    As to why Ari or others wont call him a liar on his points, who knows. But I bet it will come out within a year from now.

    If it's an evil conspiracy, then I'll own up. Youdambetcha!

    But here's somethingn that I dont understand... when they mention Plame in this book.... what difference does it make who did what when? It's established that the SUPPOSED Covert Agent, was outed by a career wonk, not a member of the administration.
     
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  9. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    no, of course not, silly. McClellan was much more inside. McClellan was by his side when he campaigned for governor and was with him for more than 10 years. Feith was a policy wonk -- one of many -- working on a single topic, while McClellan was "inside" on every initiative of the White House. If you don't understand that about the Press Secretary's job, you really need to read some history.

    Well, he only kept his job for 6 years. He must have really been crap.

    At first I thought that you meant that since Scooter Libby was the VP's Chief of staff, he wasn't part of the administration because CHENEY IS REALLY IN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH. Yeah, right.

    But then there's this that just hit the news:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/30/ ... topstories

    So I guess it really doesn't matter who took the fall, THE DECIDER made the decision to leak.

    Wonder how the White House will claim executive privilege to keep him from testifying now that they've just disavowed him. Gonna be fun to see you squirming around this one, 'fog.
    [/quote]
     
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  10. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Gee... guess I'll just have to fall back on the fact she WASNT a COVERT agent,
     
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  11. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    yeah, if that lie works for you, fall back on it.

    Or you can just acknowledge that the president, the vice president, Karl Rove, Rumsfeld, and others in the administration cared not a whit for truth or the laws of the land. It's much more logical than taking every example of it -- and there've been hundreds -- and pass them off as Liberal whining.

    I can't wait for President McCain to take the oath of office. When he swears to uphold the Constitution, I'll believe him.
     
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