The future of FFC

A bit of a heavy topic to start, but it seems as good a time as any to put it out there, given the just ended season.

Here's where I'm coming from as a newbie...we just finished 9th, our most recent best finish is 7th, plus a Europa League runner-up trophy (does the Europa League runner-up even GET a trophy?).

We seem to be spinning our wheels a bit. What's it gonna take to move up in the table and challenge for a CL spot? Or are we happy where we're at?

Personally, I'd like to see the club "go for it" more aggressively. As Herman Edwards once famously said, you play to win the game. Too often, it seems we're playing for less than that, to draw a tough match on the road, or comfortably avoid relegation. To me, that's not what sports is all about.

Would the proposed expansion put us in a better postion to do that? Is it merely and exercise in treading water, to hold serve, or improve our results a little bit? Do we need a new owner(s) with deeper pockets that can absorb the losses it seems to take to win these days?

I've always believed actions speak louder than words, and it appears Dodi's dad does have the best interests of the team at heart.

Is that enough?

Discuss.

 

Let's not forget that just a few years ago, we were entering seasons with relegation as a very real possibility. Indeed, we escaped by the skin of our teeth just before the turnaround you mention above.

To be a consistent mid-table club does represent real and significant progress in a relatively short amount of time. But to your point, what is next? Do we press on? I really can't see us competing cash-wise with the big clubs, so realistically, I think we should be shooting for those next spots outside of the CL. For the immediate future, top 10 should remain our goal, with 5-7 representing a very successful season.

Personally, I'd love to see us make a deep run in the FA Cup, something that's been tricky in the past couple years with European play.

 

If we continue to improve our academy then anything is possible. I have been pushing for this approach since I became a Fulham supporter in 2004. We can't compete with City and United in spending money, but we can compete in the academy area. We are starting to do that and it's paying off with guys like Frei and Trotta playing in the first team. If we want to be a top four club, we need to do what Arsenal is doing.


We can compete with the likes of Everton and Newcastle then we need to keep our best players and invest around £20m in the summer to improve areas like RB and Forward. Our problem is that we suck at buying the £10m player. We never do well with those. That needs to change. We can't keep on spending money on players like AJ and Ruiz because it's a huge chunk of our budget.



Going into next year I want to sign Nathaniel Clyne at RB, Nacer Chadli on the right wing and a guy like Luuk De Jong at forward. If we keep our best players and add players of this quality then we can compete for a top six finish. Staying there is the problem, but if we follow the academy approach then we can stay there.

Yes, we don't have a huge stadium, but success means more fans. More fans mean more money. More money means possibility to expand the stadium further. Those seats will be filled as long as we are successful.

 

Call me morbid and call me pale...but, I still hope for survival, everything else is gravy and puts me over the moon. However, I've hoped for a domestic cup run for nigh on a decade (yep, not an old timer), and this is what I want to see (other than maintenance in the Prem, so call me pessimistic), yet I know the squad is now better than the one that went to Fratton Park in May 2008 and blew my mind that day.

If the expansion of the Cottage goes through, that will help boost revenue. But, MAF has put so much of his own funds into this club at this point - funds/loans, that I don't believe he'll ever be paid back unless he sells to a Qatari family.

Blowing our proverbial wad on a gob of transfers isn't the Fulham way. I trust in the front office to get the most for the money - Marlet notwithstanding...

Bring back Demps and Dembele, and then let's talk an upper, upper / cup run finish with a few pieces added.

Nothing wrong with ambition, but it's all a work in progress.

COYW

 

Staying up must be the first priority of every season in my opinion. Newcastle and either Blackpool/Spam are VERY lucky to pop back up. Look at Portsmouth/Charlton, etc to see what being relegated from the top could mean. Don brings up a good point about Leeds. Just now are they starting to get some steam to head back up. They went from European glory to 3rd tier football.

After that I say a nice cup run would be great. Less travel/strain then the Europa League.

 

Jump, the single most difficult thing to come to grips with as an American (and used to how our major sports leagues are run) following the Premier League is the realization that the title cannot be won at a smaller club...EVER. That is unless a billionaire rolls in and shells out ungodly sums of money without worrying about the bottom line. To answer the question, no I'm not satisfied and like everyone else think we are just an addition or two away from having a Newcastle type season. That said, Newcastle still didn't make the CL and there are still 5 other clubs that have vast more sums of money than Fulham. Expanding to 30K, continued spending at the Academy level is the smart way to build w/out a financial meltdown (see Portsmouth; tiny stadium, reckless spending, administration, and now relegated to League 1). I will echo the desire to make a deep FA Cup run, and believe there is no reason why the club can't make an appearance at Wembley.

 

While we're all talking about having a Newcastle type season, it should be realized that we still have an old squad. So if we lost Dempsey and Dembele and some of the older players start to show their age, we could easily have an Aston Villa type season. I think we're an established top ten club, but we're newly established and shit can go wrong.

Joe is right, smaller clubs can't win anything. Even my optimistic plan probably sees us in the Champions League every year and that would be ten years or more from now. The academy approach can only take you so far, think Arsenal, you need to spend money. We have to hope for us to become a bigger club than we are because of our success so we can spend money.

 

According to wikipedia (I know, I know), MAF is the 993rd wealthiest individual on the planet, worth $1.2 billion. I guess it takes MULTI-trillionaire to make a Prem League team contenders...

 

By contrast, Sheikh Mansour has an estimated net worth of 17 billion pounds, with his family fortune at $1 trillion.

 

Really interesting topic. I don't have a ton to add so I'll mostly echo what already has been said.

Unlike many American sports, it's probably going to be a pretty slow and gradual process to get to Champions league level (if its even possible at all). However in just the short 4-5 seasons I've been following the club, we've already accomplished a lot. The Europa final shows the type of potential that this club has. I'm totally satisfied for now maintaining ourselves as a top 10 club. As we've seen with other clubs, it's an extremely difficult accomplishment. Just look at Aston Villa, a season or two ago I would have never expected to see them end up where they did. I agree that the next step is to make an FA Cup run and hopefully we can reach and/or win the cup in the next 5 years.

A combination of the stadium expansion, good youth development, consistency, deeper pockets and a little luck will hopefully get us to where we want to go. In the meantime, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride!

 

Good thoughts, everybody. Even though, I disagree with Nevtzer, I can see where you're coming from (since worrying about the barely possible threat of relegation still hangs in the back of my mind) and also appreciate the Smiths reference (I actually sang that song at my dorm's open mic -years back).

I guess the closest person I agree with is Tim. This team could put together a run like Newcastle had this year (or Villa or Everton have had in the past)- qualifying for the Champions League would be a minor miracle (as it was for Everton or Villa)- but we could wrap up that 5th or 6th place spot and relieve some of the stress of the end of '09 or Fair Play last year. I think things have gone from a minimum of not getting relegated to a minimum of either finishing in the Top 10 or making a deep Cup run (i.e. we were only 12th in '10, but made it to the Europa Final)- i.e. to at least the Semis of one of the domestic cups. I also am encouraged by the progress of our academy and signing young players- back when I first became a Fulham fan, the youth team was churning out the likes of Elvis Hammond- so seeing Academy products of the quality of Briggs and Trotta and cheap young signings like Frei and Special K is definitely a leap forward in the positive direction. As VegasJustin noted, that's going to be the key to our success. That and pulling cheap signings off the scrap heap. Ruiz has shown flashes of brilliance and when AJ's been fit, he's been wonderful- but obviously we can't afford to make world class signings because they'll come at the expense of our best resources of finding talent and of ultimately of fielding a competitive club. I liked our depth this year- the idea of actually having all these guys healthy (or most- it'd be a lot to ask for another 2008-09 season when we didn't seem to have a single significant injury) makes a Europa League spot next year a realistic goal. We can't really compete with teams like City, Man U, Arsenal, Chelski or even Spurs- but we can compete with the likes of Everton, Newcastle and a very lost Liverpool team (at least in the league, I guess it's unfair to call a team that went to two cup finals "Lost"- but it's clear they were distracted and inconsistent in league play).

I'm excited for next season to start already- with better form away from home, fewer injury issues, a full season of players buying into Jol's system and without the added strain of Europa League games from June on- if we even keep one of the Dembele/Dempsey duo, I expect big things from this team.

~ Steve

 

How much revenue does making the Champions League generate? Or is it solely dependent upon how far you go in the tournament?

 

As of 2010–11, UEFA awards €2.1 million to each team in the play-off round. For reaching the group stage, UEFA awards €3.9 million, plus €550,000 per group match played. A win in the group is awarded €800,000 and a draw is worth €400,000. In addition, UEFA pays teams reaching the first knockout round €3 million, each quarter-finalist €3.3 million, €4.2 million for each semi-finalist, €5.6 million for the runners-up and €9 million for the winners.

Playoffs: €2,100,000
Group stage: €3,900,000
For each match in group stage: €550,000
Group match victory: €800,000
Group match draw: €400,000
Round of 16: €3,000,000
Quarter-finals: €3,300,000
Semi-finals: €4,200,000
Losing finalist: €5,600,000
Winning the Final: €9,000,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champ ... rize_money

 

So is a 4th place finish (except this year, of course) a reasonable goal? Or is it out of reach?

 

I think it's a good thing to revisit this every year:
It's like this guy says, in Why Soccer Is Better Than Football:

So, recalling back a few years where the 'last day drama' was whether FFC would stay up or not.. Do you LIKE the drama? Or would you rather know you were fairly comfy midtable and just dwell on the team/player performances game by game?
Whatever the concensus, I dont expect that to last.. in a few years of midtable, I expect there will be a few who would rather the team go down than be boringly predictable.

 

I like the drama from an ocean away, but if I lived in England and really felt the reality of relegation to my "home" team, I'm not sure I could take it.

 

I would love to say yes to both those questions, but I can't. The team isn't far away right now, but unless MAF decided to scrap the business model and pump in a few hundred million more pounds it's not going to happen. The Premier League is so stratified (the number one thing that is wrong with the league) that only a billionaire (and their willingness to throw away money) can make a run at the top.

So, recalling back a few years where the 'last day drama' was whether FFC would stay up or not.. Do you LIKE the drama? Or would you rather know you were fairly comfy midtable and just dwell on the team/player performances game by game?
Whatever the concensus, I dont expect that to last.. in a few years of midtable, I expect there will be a few who would rather the team go down than be boringly predictable.

I enjoyed the drama after it was over and the team pulled a rabbit out of it's hat. However, it was only after months of horrendous football that had zero 'drama' in it. That said relegation/promotion adds a lot to a league where usually only 2 teams have a shot at the title and 3 or 4 teams have a chance at the other CL spots.

 

Grant Wahl posted this earlier
http://www.channel4.com/news/premier-league-the-alternative-results-table

If accurate, then this is concerning. Can we really have the second-most debt of any club in the league? Can anyone here shed some light on this? Where on earth is it coming from?