Soak the Rich More: Chap. MMIX

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by pettyfog, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Evidently Obama is djinning up the old 'Rich Dont Pay Enough' saw to play on those who believe we can solve everything by redistributing wealth.

    I'm not an economist or a Master Accountant but it wasnt hard for me as an adult, once I filled out my first long form return, to get the connection between the taxation rate and federal revenue.

    Reviving Redistributionism
    The article will go on to point out that raising the rates on the rich results in LOWER revenues both because of 'hoarding/hiding' and shift of investment to non-product funds like currencies and gold. We wont even go into how much better a flat or fair tax would be because there's no way Congress will allow those to come to a vote.. too much money available for lawmakers in tweaking the current system.
    It also points out that, since JFK lowered to top rate, more and more % of Revenue actually did come from the rich.

    Since I'm poor and dont have a dog in the hunt then why do I care about this?
    Dunno.. I should keep my mouth shut and hope Barry gets elected and makes sure I'm comfy in my old age with no hassle required on my part.

    Maybe because I admire, rather than envy, people who have the grit to go out and do the big thing. Could'a been me if I'd had the burn.

    How about you; Admire or Envy?
     
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  2. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    Here's a surprise: YOU'VE MISSED THE POINT. Of course, people who blindly buy the anti-tax mantra always miss the point.

    Here's the point behind rescinding the tax cuts for the wealthy:

    1. It was the wrong idea in the first place. If we were on the edge of a recession when GWB proposed them [and I'm still not convinced that was true], then it was a DEMAND recession rather than a supply recession. Our manufacturing space was operating at only about 75% of capacity. With the growing disparity in incomes, if a tax-cut stimulus was actually needed it was at the lower rates. Lower and middle-income earners were losing disposable income. If THEIR tax rates had been cut, there would have been more money available to spend and the economy would have had a boost. Instead, the administration acted if we were on the verge of a SUPPLY recession -- as in the 1980s -- and that it was trickle-down time. Instead, tax cuts to the wealthy only resulted in more disposable income for those who already had plenty. What followed was not more consumption, but more playing with the stock market and investment in great ideas like sub-prime mortgages.

    2. Thanks to the tax cuts for the rich, China and Japan own our ass. For the first time in our history, we're fighting a war WITHOUT raising taxes. How is this possible? Well, record deficits help, but mostly we're doing it by selling treasury bonds. This is a way to bring money into the economy without raising taxes. Who's buying these bonds? Well, last I heard China and Japan investment provides more than 40% of our national income. The health of our economy and most of our security is in the hand of two of our economic rivals. No wonder the president is looking forward to going to the Olympics. He's got a lot of ass to kiss there. But I suppose I shouldn't worry. After all, having around 20% of our economy controlled by a communist nation shouldn't worry anyone, should it?

    3. The most important factor in the security of our nation is our economic stability. If we're going to achieve that, we have to

    a. change the source ratio of our federal revenue so that we're not as dependent on the good will of other nations -- especially communist ones.

    b. eliminate the greatest source of our excessive spending. And, no, Ronnie, that's not welfare mothers with color TVs and Caddilacs. It's the unnecessary and elective war in Iraq.

    Ignoring these factors and facts, and casting all of this as socialistic redistribution of wealth based on envy is the basist intellectual sophistry.

    Pull your head out, Pettyfog.
     
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  3. jmh

    jmh New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    "djinning up"?
     
    #3
  4. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Nice rant. I'll point out that "China and Japan own us' is a little dated. Esp Japan. They bought a lot of US non-transportables in the eighties and went on a decade long recession.

    In case you guys dont realize what side Don's on....

    In China case, they own a LOT of Dollars... which means they own a lot of US debt.
    Now if you had bundles of promissories what would you do with them... burn 'em?

    Oh...by the way. Don was trying to subdue with verbiage. The taxes for lower and middle s WERE cut. Fact. Inconvenient.

    And when Dem governors get desperate enough, what do they do? Get in a 'tax-forgiveness war' with other states. Often TOO much.

    But now we're getting into the realm of why 'Fair-Tax' would revive us as a producer, rather than a 'services' economy. That blows the minds of most because it's just too simple. And the professional accountants and tax lawyers wouldnt like it so much.

    Oh... and Don; why do you suppose after all the bluff and bluster, Oil isnt priced in Euro's rather than the dollar? After all.....

    Just one question for Don to answer: For US publicly traded corporations is there REALLY such a thing as a Corporate Tax?
    - The meaning being .. 'WHO PAYS THAT TAX?'
    Answer yes or no and explain.
     
    #4
  5. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    The thing you gotta love about 'fog. When he has no substantive response, the boy can dance like Fred Astaire.

    The nice thing about believing that everyone who disagrees with you is evil and stupid and socialist, is that you don't have to worry about the illogic of your positions. It's one of the benefits to the conservative side in attacking institutions of higher learning. The more uneducated and ignorant your support base is, the less they are capable of seeing how what you're telling them just doesn't make sense. For instance: rescinding the tax cuts for the wealthy is socialist redistribution of weath from the rich to the poor. However, if someone were to say that creating tax cuts for the wealthy is a fascistic redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, that's VERY DIFFERENT. Don't worry about the logic of the former not working for the latter. Just yell CLASS WARFARE and BUSH DERANGEMENT. What a joke.

    Oh, and even though I didn't say a word about corporate income taxes, here's the answer & explanation you so nicely asked for: "yes; because it's a tax on corporations." You see, 'fog, "personal income tax" is a tax on the income of persons and "corporate income tax" is a tax on the income of corporations. I typed that really slow.

    Insert tab a into slot b. Lather, rinse, repeat.
     
    #5
  6. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Back to Petty's question - Admire or envy. I admire as long as they got rich legally through their own hard work and they give something back.
     
    #6
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