Oil: How long till the Europeans get smart..

.. and start protesting US oil policies?

- barcepundit, which adds:

Not very helpful, I'm afraid. Some estimates are that the top thirty percent of the market price per barrel is speculative.

If the Europeans paid attention, they'd recall those taxes were always there and it's not going to help by shifting net tax revenues over to some other economic sector in order to subsidize transportation fuel costs

What they SHOULD be looking at is the failure of the US to address its part in easing the speculation.

Things like this:Fortune: The politics of oil shale

That's good.. blame it on Republicans, without defining WHY they might have rejected it. But that's beside the point... Republicans have shown to not be averse to having their pockets lined with special interest money.
As long as that money doesnt come from ' big oil' which is the 'antichrist'.

For Colorado's Senators, it's easier to figure out WHY they balk.. even if that goes against their state's overall economic interest. Again, follow the money.. not far.. just to Aspen and Boulder.

It's no secret, just under-remarked that Colorado has turned blue politically in the last twenty years and much of that is due to an exodus from California of various blends of the rich liberal leisure class. Oregon doesnt want them anymore and said so at the end of the eighties.

So they move to the next best. In the process, giving credence to a view that Aspen is the center of liberal interests in Colorado and the University of Colorado is their center of 'informed thought'. Which resulted, of course, in such as Ward Churchill.

Ah, but back to oil... The interview does touch on the nut of the issue:

Well.. the rich will always be able to afford to drive, whatever the price. We arent talking about the guys who live in Aspen.. or in Boulder, either.

We're talking about Joe Sixpack, who works in construction or in factories, or has his own service business. What galls the liberals is that Joe barely made it out of high school and yet has the temerity to own 2.5 cars, a motorcycle, and a boat which he uses to go waterskiing a couple weekends and one week a year.

In any JUST society, Joe would have a delivery truck, used only for business, maybe a motorcycle but a bike would would be better, and all else would ride public transit. His watersports would consist of a picnic on the riverbank and riding the ferry.

While those who invested tens thousands in their academic liberal arts education would have their salaries adjusted appropriately and they would have the toys of leisure. As befitting their learnedness and ability to expound on all things philosophical.

And if we actually started drilling in all the known fields in the US, the bottom would drop out of oil futures, and the powers that be would actually have to raise taxes to keep fuel prices up. Thus be transparent.

For now, they are content to go on pocketing cash from the leisure liberals while paying lip service to green groups.

If only we could figure a way to siphon a percentage of oil revenue from these new fields directly into the politicians bank accounts, the problem would be solved.

 

I don't see anything in the linked Barcepundit posting or the NYT article linked from there saying that the Spanish truckers are protesting U.S. oil policies. They seem to be protesting the high gas taxes in the E.U. (or is that in Spain alone? I'm not sure how that works).

My understanding is that the process of extracting shale oil is expensive and dirty, though I could be wrong.

I'm going to ignore the rest of the post, which is mainly the standard Pettyfog anti-liberal spleen-venting.

 

Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get smart..

Rendering anything you have to say moot.

Because you apparently cant READ, even as much as a subject line.... blinded by bias against me?
I wonder.

I'll cut to the chase for you.... POLITICIANS ON THE TAKE! Repubs, Dems.. doesnt matter!

And I'll swat that last right back at you... wouldnt want you to actually have to THINK about anything I write.

A big middle finger smiley to you.


Added: to make things even easier for the rest of you who may be thinking the same thing: The connection is in RED. go back and read it again before you bring your popgun to a shootout.

And the anti-lib rant is in blue.

 

RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get smart..

You're right. I misunderstood your thread title and the sentence it led into.

 

Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get smart..

Thank you... you have cred. Because you didnt just slink off. If you THINK about what you've read from me before, you would note I'm at least as hard on skunk Repubs as I am Dems. Because I expect it from Dems.

Now, want to comment on the posit's I made?

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get sma

Sure. I agree with you that U.S. oil policy is a large factor in driving prices up for these protesters, though with demand increasing in India and China (and with those governments even subsidizing gas for citizens, if I'm not mistaken), and with oil being a fungible commodity, you can't focus on just the U.S.

Regarding U.S. policy specifically, though, I think more focus needs to be put on demand than on supply. Our gas taxes are too low, given how much of it we import, and have been for a long time; they're a relic of a time when we were an oil exporter. Because prices have remained as low as they have, there's been little incentive to to develop alternatives (be they electric cars, biofuels, increased non-fossil fuel electricity generation, broader accessibility to other forms of transportation, any paradigm other than burning fossil fuel for all our energy and transportation needs); it's just been easy not to do so. I think it would be a short-sighted mistake and a missed opportunity to make our national policy discussion "how can we get more oil?" instead of "why are we so dependent on cheap oil, and how can we address that dependence so that future generations of Americans will be free of it?"

As I said, my understanding is that the process of extracting shale oil is both expensive and dirty; am I wrong?

It's nice of you to recognize that some of your post is substance and some of it is rant. :lol:

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get sma

I always recognize that, WTF is the good of being able to post opinion if you cant go off on a rant to buttress your views, and how strongly you hold them. That's the way it was set up. However, just driving by and popping off a cork now and then doesnt do any service to anyone.

As to your point, alternative fuel and energy sources {NOT counting food for fuel} are well into motion. Oil is never again going down below $60 at the current dollar strength and if the dollar improves, that wont affect economical recovery at all.
Everything being developed now is projected against $50 oil.

We have lately discovered MANY more millions in oil reserves than we thought we had, and of all the major oil producers the US ranks very low in tapped fields vs reserves.
That, sir is my point. As to those who still have a silly idea that all that oil is for us, and none should go anywhere else, - ex for Japan- just remember oil goes to the highest bidder, transportation costs figured in.

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get sma

Ooh, 'fog called me "sir"!

You still haven't answered my question, though. Am I right that the extraction of shale oil is expensive and dirty?

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get sma

It's cost effective @ about $50. And as to 'dirty', oil IS dirty. What's your point?

Ask an Alberta Canuck.

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get sma

Yes JMH, the oil is dirty coming out, almost quality of tar. However, refineries can be overhauled to handle that capacity. EnCana and Conoco Phillips are working on that now.

"ConocoPhillips has long been a leader in producing, processing and refining heavy oil. In 2006, ConocoPhillips and EnCana Corporation entered into an agreement to create an integrated, North American heavy oil business comprised of two 50/50 operating partnerships, one Canadian upstream partnership and one U.S. downstream partnership, with both companies contributing equally valued assets and equity for future capital expenditures. ConocoPhillips’ heavy oil capabilities also are aiding in evaluating the feasibility of producing shale oil in the U.S. Rocky Mountains. A similar approach is being used to analyze the producibility of natural gas hydrates – methane trapped in ice in arctic regions and beneath sea beds."
http://www.conocophillips.com/Tech/init ... /index.htm

And Fog is correct that at $50 that production is economical. I believe EnCana had a study that it was economical at $45, but can't find a link for that.

 

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans get

Obviously "oil is dirty" but some oil extraction processes are dirtier than others. I'm not referring to the refining (which dtwondough addressed) but the extraction.

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil: How long till the Europeans

JMH, I think you would be surprised if you read or researched the minimal environmental impact some of the E&P companies have while drilling. Most states require an environmental impact study to be complete before drilling a certain location. These studies take years to complete. And, like Wyoming, if you are disturbing the Sage Grouse nesting, then you design a platform for drilling so that rigs are not actually directly in contact with the land.

 

I realize that doesn't address shale oil specifically, but does go toward the environmental misconceptions about drilling domestically.

http://eteam.ncpa.org/commentaries/we-dont-have-to-take-4-gas-prices-we-can-drill

 

It's important, here, to only post the credible facts. The first thing to address on the drilling/exploration issue is that China is NOT drilling between Key West and Cuba.....

....Yet.
Taken into account must be the fact that they dont yet have the expertise to do deep water work, nor slant drilling, which is the main concern. Lack of holding/refining facilities on Cuban soil, however, is a straw man. Once any production starts, it will be simple work to build the infrastructure needed.

- - - - -- - - - - -

Sidenote: It's really sad that the only presidential candidate who could have righted this mess is out of the race. Of all three, none have executive Decision experience but the one who could best understand the issues is Hillary.

Given she hasnt run a company either but the Clinton paradigm exposed them to the facts. Specifically, Whitewater, but the dealings with the chinese and other campaign shenanigans, even 'travelgate' give her a more practical view of the big picture.

McCain? He admits he knows diddly about economics, but he's SURE that the oil companies are making 'obscene profits'.

I just wanna...

 

'Fog, you said "If the Europeans paid attention, they'd recall those taxes were always there and it's not going to help by shifting net tax revenues over to some other economic sector in order to subsidize transportation fuel costs." - I'm not sure which head you had on.

The level of taxation in the UK has gone up disproportionaly with the level of inflation. I personally would like to see the UK government stop haemorrhaging money on crazy projects (such as the 2012 Olymipc drugs masking and having more middle managers in hospitals than doctors, proping up private transport companies because they sold off national assests to make a quick profit) and redude the level of spending - that way they can provide some form of tax break back to the population.

I also want the UK government to stop pretending that it is a green tax - it's not they're just theiving b******ds that need money to prop up their crap fiscal policy - and I would respect them much more if they admitted it.

 

Here's a similar view to my position {rant - in blue} that if the left saw an advantage to them, politically, they'd throw the 'enviro-wacko's' in front of the bus.
WSJ: Why Brazil Isn't Ashamed to Exploit Its Oil

To be perfectly clear, perhaps it's time for the US to act just as any other large petro-nation. Nationalize the resource...carefully!

It already IS, you say. Well, yes and no... the return isnt directly accountable in the revenue stream... in other words, not a big enough piece of the pie.

Perhaps, as suggested by implication, in the article if the Fed nationalized/acquired a 25% stake in all energy companies operating in the US, things would be different.

{Yeah, Don... that's one of those 'NeoCon' twists and turns you hate.}

 

RE: Oil!

Meanwhile.. just another little chip in the armor.

Anyone want to look up the news that the US taxpayers are funding Brazilian offshore field development to the tune of 2 Billion?


wanna bet a certain G Soros has some interest in those fields?