Offsides - The Gallas Goal

For those who saw the highlights, was he or wasn't he offside when he scored the winner last night v Hull? Here's the situation. A ball is played into the box in the air. Gallas breaks onside and gets behind the keeper, defense and other Arsenal attackers. The ball is contested in the air (in front of Gallas) and the Hull keeper tips it up and back. It falls to Gallas's head and he puts it home.

Does the offside line (or whatever you call it) change b/c the ball came into contact with other players, thus putting him offside? Or is he onside b/c he was onside when the initial ball was played into the box.

Here are the highlights from the match. Gallas's goal will be toward the end.

http://www.mysoccerplace.net/video/arsenal-vs-hull-city

 

From your description, I don't think he was offside, so long as he was onside when the ball was played into the box by his teammate.

 

go to link 2:52 or so. keep clicking on the slider at that point.

I would call offside.

The ball was played into box not to goal, the attacking player jumped and advanced ball toward goal -nullifying gallas' position at the kick- with his head. At that point Gallas was clearly offside.

The GK having misplayed or deflected the ball had no effect on call as Gallas was clearly offside when ball was advanced.

 

In re-reading my account, it may not have been clear when I said "in front". When the keeper tipped the ball, Gallas was between the nearest Hull player and the goal.

Crude example at the time the ball is tipped:

Ars Ars
Hull GK (tips ball in air)
Hull Def
Gallas
Net

Fog, would it matter if the ball was advanced in the air by the GK or an Arsenal player?

 

While reading 'fog's explanation, I was replaying his words in my mind and they were perfectly recited by the voiceover from the old in-game, commercial break fodder "IBM presents: You Make The Call..."

Do they still air 'you make the call?' I don't think I've seen one in years.

 

We get to a gray area, there. IF the ball were clearly headed toward the goal AWAY from Gallas, AND the GK got a hand on it and deflected it back to Gallas, then I'd say that Gallas, having been away from the original heading play was 'on-side', the ball having been put to him by a defender.
As it happened the header was down and advancing ball toward Gallas and not directly into goal.

The GK deflected it but that's irrelevent as the effect, not intent, of the header is what is at question.

 

Looking at it in real time, its tough to say if the Arsenal player headed the ball forward or if the goalee mispunched the ball and it deflected back off the arsenal players head. In the latter case, it would not be offsides. Tough spot for the linesman and I have to say it was a good non-call, given the conjestion in the box.

 

andy.. in real time yes, you're right.
I'm not sussed either way, I couldnt care less.

But it was a wrong call nonetheless. In fact the hindsight benefit of multiple replay as I suggested says he's offside. Ball was deflected but not 'back' toward arse. The effect of the arse player's header is what counts.

Let's spread the field.
Frankie H is streaking up the right sideline, and passes GBS as the ball is sent to that spot by Carroll. GBS' marker is up from him a yard or so, GBS intends to cross over to Robbie who is on left side of pitch, marked and onside but GBS unaccountably squibs the kick, GBS' defender gets a foot on it, deflecting the ball, back off GBS shin and it bounces to Frankie, offside at the time of the squib kick.

Frankie IS called offside.

Doesnt matter GBS intended to keep ball from Frankie's zone, doesnt matter the defender deflected it.

 

Who the hell are all those people you're going on about? :wink:

 

... just mythical soccer-superheroes I just made up.

 

'Fog. I understand that case, but if the goal keeper punches the ball and it bounces off an attackers head, no offsides would be called. It matters who made the primary contact. I'm just saying that, in real time, it would be very tough to tell whether the goal keeper's fist or the attackers head made the primary contact.

 

Sorry, I don't have access to the video, but I think I can comment as a ref... 8)

If Gallas is in the onside position when the first offensive touch is made, and the goalie paries the ball, it doesn't matter where Gallas is after that. Once a defensive player "plays" the ball (not a deflection), all bets are off. Right or wrong, it sounds like the ref(s) thought the goalie played the ball.

 

ohfucrineoutld!

The inital kick was made from outside the box. Gallas was onside then.
While ball was in the air, Gallas moved toward goal and keeper moved out slightly
>>>>>>
Next touch was by teammate who deflect-headed ball toward keeper and into Gallas' range. At THAT time, Gallas was offside and his position during the kick no longer mattered.
<<<<<<
Keeper got fingers on it and it LOOKED like ball bounced off. Gallas' Teammate before Gallas put it into goal from his offside position.

BUT... if Gallas was offside when his mate headed the ball it doesnt matter what happened BEFORE OR AFTER THAT!!!

 

18 Rules in Football. And one unspoken 19th.

Referee's interpretation of what has happened on the pitch, during a match, stands.

This has been a good case study of offside rule, which I think is a rule that gets more attention and strict ruling than it deserves.

Background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offside_(football)

 

Fog, my hope is not to get in a pissing match...
But the BEFORE & AFTER does have a lot to do with it. Again, I have not seen the video, but Gallas' participation would effect the play.

PS- There are no boxes on a football/soccer pitch.

 

Not saying wrong or right about this whole bit, but for consistency sake, if a deflected ball off defender can be picked up by keeper, shouldn't deflected ball off attacker be provided similar treatment regarding offside rule?

Jus' sayin'.

 

Fog. I understand and agree that this is what really happened, and that this would be off-sides. My point is that if the perception of the linesman is that the goalee caused the primary impact to the ball, knocking it against the head of the attacker (as opposed to whiffing and the attacker getting a head on it - what really happened), then Gallas would NOT be offsides.

My argument is that, in real time, I would not have been sure enough to make the call, either. I would rather refs err on the side of NOT making calls than on making them.

 

yep, me too.

 

So in summary, it's all dependent on the side that advances the ball. In accidental/unintentional contact cases, then it's discretion of the ref.