Hagee endorses McCain

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trai ... ain_1.html

Is he going to denounce this? Why not reject it? I mean Obama has to be on his heels for not being strong enough on Farrakhan, but this idiot endorses McCain and nobody is bitching about this. How about this little tidbit here.


HAGEE: All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.


Or maybe we can use this.

HAGEE: Well, Islam in general, those who live by the Quran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews. Now, I had an Islamic on my television show last week. His name was Walid Shoebat. He was raised as a Palestinian terrorist and at one time was -- placed a bomb and was supposed to walk into a bank. And I said, "Walid, I'm trying to understand the definition of what is a radical Islamic person, because I've read many books, many magazines and I can't come up with a good definition of what constitutes a radical Islamic." And he says these words, and I'll quote them, he said, "Anyone who truly believes the Quran is willing to kill Christians or Jews. That's waging jihad." He said, "Now, those people who are willing to go into another country and start a war will only be about 15 to 20 percent of Islam."

There are 1.3 billion people who follow the Islamic faith, so if you're saying there's only 15 percent that want to come to America or invade Israel to crush it, you're only talking about 200 million people. That's far more than Hitler and Japan and Italy and all of the axis powers in World War II had under arms. That is a massive number of people. So while we may define radical Islam as a minority, because there are so many, it is still an overpowering military potential.



Or this.

Adolf Hitler attended a Catholic school as a child and heard all the fiery anti-Semitic rantings from Chrysostom to Martin Luther. When Hitler became a global demonic monster, the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII never, ever slightly criticized him. Pope Pius XII, called by historians 'Hitler's Pope,' joined Hitler in the infamous Concordat of Collaboration, which turned the youth of the [sic] Germany over to Nazism, and the churches became the stage background for the bloodthirsty cry, 'Pereat Judea'.... In all of his [Hitler's] years of absolute brutality, he was never denounced or even scolded by Pope Pius XII or any Catholic leader in the world. To those Christians who believe that Jewish hearts will be warmed by the sight of the cross, please be informed—to them it's an electric chair. (pp. 79-81)

The Roman Catholic Church, which was supposed to carry the light of the gospel, plunged the world into the Dark Ages.... The Crusaders were a motley mob of thieves, rapists, robbers, and murderers whose sins had been forgiven by the pope in advance of the Crusade.... The brutal truth is that the Crusades were military campaigns of the Roman Catholic Church to gain control of Jerusalem from the Muslims and to punish the Jews as the alleged Christ killers on the road to and from Jerusalem. (p. 73)



Yes folks, he is defenitely better than Farrakhan.

 

Actually my view on the historical Roman Church pretty much matches Hagee's... but he's dead wrong on Pius and Hitler.

 

This is called a belief and people are entitled to them. Whether you agree or disagree with anothers belief is of course your perogative but to belittle anyone for having a belief that in no way threatens another is narrow minded.

If you do not believe there is a segment of the Islamic religion that does not wish to see Christian based societies fall you are naive. I live in a relatively small to mid-sized midwestern city and the following was uttered in the back seat of my wife's car while giving 2 of my sons 12 year old teammates a ride to soccer practice:

"The only thing that could have made 9/11 better would have been if we had video tapes of Muslims dancing around the fallen towers."

No I am not joking. I am not trying to paint followers of Islam with a broad brush but I will never forget my wife coming home and both crying over the hurt she felt and venting over such an abrasive comment.

While the above may be painted with a bit of a broad brush this is considered to be a factual representation of many of the acts committed during the Crusades by most historians.

 

I think McCain has handled Hagee as well as Obama has handled Farrakhan.

 

I'm not saying that people aren't entitle to their views, but the press hasn't went after McCain for accepting this endorsement, like they have Obama. Farrakhan is no worse than this idiot.


Also I would argue that there is a portion of the Christian population that wants to do away with Islam. These views actually persuade the US government in its foreign policy. These views are just as dangerous as radical Islam. Another thing about radical Islam is that it's mainly based on Western actions and such. Hamas would not be if there was no Israel. Al Qaeda would not be if there was no America in the middle east plus, CIA help during the Cold War.

 

And I would argue you are addicted to the Kool-Aid.

From a theological view, OF COURSE Evangelicals want to do away with Islam. What do you think 'Evangelical' means? The ONLY Judeo-Christian-Islamic group that DOESNT want to convert all the others is Orthodox Jews. With the exception of the mainstream 'Christian - Jesus was a social activist' idiots.

They are 'JUST AS DANGEROUS? Why dont you try READING some? Quit falling for that 'Jihad means struggle' crap that CAIR puts out, while the Imams they defend preach 'by whatever means'.
- ever notice how CAIR hates us always interpreting Jihad as Terrorist while they interpret 'Crusade' to suit their agenda?

You see Hagee saying his flock should inflict death on those who refuse to accept Jesus Christ? You see Hagee telling his flock to not trade or associate -in any way- with 'non-believers'? If you do, point it out and I'll agree with your point.
- There ARE idiot so-called Christian sects who believe that. Fred Phelps' for one... but all his flock are basically his own inbreds. THEY deserve the real contempt, which I'll give em gladly. But theological screw-worm as Hagee is, his view on the HISTORICAL ASPECTS has a LOT of truth in it. And History, taken as a total, bear it out.

I'm not EVEN going to get into the 'It's all our fault' idea you seem to believe. Wherever we DONT influence they STILL practice Jihad. How many examples do you need to be furnished to understand that.

No FFC24, it's YOUR views that are as dangerous as Hagees, at the LEAST!

 

Also I would argue that there is a portion of the Christian population that wants to do away with Islam. These views actually persuade the US government in its foreign policy. These views are just as dangerous as radical Islam.

Ahem.. who you telling,... what?

I didnt SAY Farrakhan, I was responding to THAT!!

Sheesh!

ANd THAT is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of YOU putting YOUR words in my MOUTH!

I'm getting a LITTLE tired of that...

I ALSO 'hate' the UCofC political hierachy, the National Council of Churches,
The HISTORICAL activities of the Roman Church, and various terror organizations that may or may not have anything to do with religion.
So there!

Oh.... and those who proclaim that we should consider 'THEIR' culture and adjust to it, while making excuses for why they cant adjust to ours.

 

America has no idea who Hagee is. However, America does know who Louis Farrakhan is. Maybe that's why.

Hagee, although he may say some outrageous and horrible things... hasn't actually harmed any non-Christians. Radical Muslims not only talk shit, but kill people as well. Like 9/11 , like London, like Madrid, like in Afghanistan, like in Iraq, and like all over the whole world for the last 30-40 years.

Hagee's like David Duke: all bark, but absolutely no bite.

 

Excellent points here FFC24. Well said in my opinion. We as Americans are always looking to blame everyone for issues that we play a part in creating. I am not saying America is at a total fault for some of the issues we face today as a nation, but if you think we have not created or been a factor in the creation of some of these problems I think you have some rose-coloured glasses on and you have been sipping the kool-aid yourself.

 

In Iraq Al-Qaeda is a whole 2% of the problem. The major problem is people seeing their children dying and see the US the cause of the mess and so they go and join the sect closest to their views and blow themselves up. Iraq would of never happened if we had never invaded. Of course that's all in the past. I mean that point is no longer valid. London and 9-11 never happen if the US stays out of Middle eastern affairs. You cannot tell me that the CIA is not partly responsible for this crap. Giving them weapons and training to defeat communism didn't exactly help the western cause.

America has no idea who Hagee is because the media never talk about his rubbish. I bet that if Farrakhan went to Venezuela tomorrow and praised Chavez, he would be all over the Conservative press and we would have to hear that idiot Hannity talk all kinds of bs about how he is helping the enemy. Hagee can say what he wants and not a word from anybody. In fact politicians embrace him. What a crock of shit. Hagee's views are well-received in the white house. While he may not do the actual killing in the battlefields, you can bet your ass his views and others are influencing policy decisions.

 

I'm not falling for any Cair crap. So I suppose Hamas shooting rockets into Israel is not because of the actions of the US and Israel? They must just be crazed idiots who feel like killing some people. Destroying homes and killing children had nothing to do with it. Same with most of the Iraqi fighters. I mean serious you're the person drinking the kool-aid not me.

I see Hagee and his other idiot friends saying that all non-believers will parish in hell when judgement day comes. I also see him and others trying to influence policy to make judgement day come. Unfortunately we have people in the US who side with these people and who don't care until it's too late.


Where don't we influence? Come on give me an answer? Where doesn't western corporations or western Governments influence? We don't have a base in the Holy land,We don't use oil, We don't fight for oil,We don't have sweatshops in poor countries,We don't influence Israeli policies. Nope that's all a dream. Nothing to see here. THE WEST INFLUENCES ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS.

It is not my views that are dangerous, it is yours along with the rest of the western world.

 

There is no hope for you. Were you dancing in the streets last night?

I think you had better read up; those folks you are apologizing for wont quit until Israel is pushed all the way out into the sea, and then they start on each other. Actually they already do war on each other, as is plain for anyone to see... if they only look. The state of the state of Palestine is not due to Israel or the US, it is due to cynical lack of support from the Arab League.

 

The CIA didn't help bin Laden or al Qaeda, the CIA helped the mujihadeen. Our efforts in Afghanistan worked and the Soviets were forced to leave Afhganistan. The Soviet Union collapsed shortly thereafter in part because of American efforts in Afghanistan.

Where the US (which means you) messed up was not supporting Afghanistan once the Soviets left. This left a political vacuum and the Taliban were able to get control of the country. The Taliban then allowed bin Laden and his followers safe haven once bin Laden as run out of Saudi Arabia and Sudan.

You need to also be careful not to argue that it is okay for events such as 9/11 to happen, i.e, America is getting what it deserves. It is not our fault the Middle East and the Islamic world is what it is. They are responsible for their actions. If they kill 8 teenagers in a religous school, that is on them. If they highjack a plane and kill an American servicman on that plane by beating him up, that is on them.

Yes, US foreign policy pisses everyone off but as long as we are the world hegemon that isn't ever going to change. That doesn't mean you go and kill Americans or other people because of it though.

9/11 happened because the US sent forces to Saudi Arabia in 1990 to liberate Kuwait. The US did this under the authority of international law, i.e., the US sent troops to the Middle East to execute international law.

This is the reason al Qaeda came into existence. Sending US forces to Saudi Arabia in support of a UN Security Council resolution is what pissed Osama bin Laden off. Nothing the US did was unlawful, injust, or immoral in liberating Kuwait.

It just a whole lot more complicated than "it's all our fault or it's the CIA's fault or we are just mean to the 'other', etc."

 

What was the Mujihadeen? What did it essentially turn into? Al-Qaeda. we didn't give them money directly, instead we let the ISI in Pakistan do alot of the work. That worked out brilliantly. The Soviets left and the Union fell, butthe US is stuck in a horrible position in the middle east today. The fact is that the "Enemy of My enemy" strategy does not work. The US also helped Iraq against Iran. There was even some talk about how Saddam took our words too seriously before he went after Kuwait. How about we get to Iran now. Are you going to say that the Iranian government today is not a result of the 1953 incident involing Mossadegh? It is and now we might be going to yet another war with a middle eastern country. Mossadegh brought democracy, but OIL yet again was a factor in his overthrow.


We have no right to be in their Holy Land. It only pisses them off and it further pisses them off when the US builds bases there. The US needs to stay out of middle eastern affairs, but I think that the US has fucked up that part of the world so badly that it cannot.


If Israel wasn't ever in existence then Hamas would not be. The fact that they evicted around 700,000 people kinda pissed off the Arabs just a bit. Now Israel has actually tried to expand. This only pisses them off further. I agree that the tactics used by Hamas is fucking BS, but it isn't like Israel has never killed a child before or destroyed homes.

 

No it didn't. The Mujihadeen became the Taliban and anti-Taliban. bin Laden and other Arab Muslims created al Qaeda. The Mujihadeen was essentially Afghani with Arab Muslims coming to Afghanistan to join in the fight against the Soviets.

Furthermore, al Qaeda didn't come into being in Afghanistan and didn't come into being until after the Afghan War. Al Qaeda didn't end up in Afghanistan until bin Laden, as I wrote before, left Sudan sometime in the 1990s.

Details matter man.

... and the US did have a right to go into Saudi Arabia because it was invited to and because the UN authorized the removal of Saddam Hussein from Kuwait.

 

It must be nice to see things in black and white. Anyone who actually LOOKs andpays attention will see that the Arab states use Palestine as a diversion from their OWN problems, human rights and otherwise.

It's just TOO easy to say it's all Israel's fault or all a Joo conspiracy, or that all the US needs do is simply stay out of and ignore everything that goes on in the Middle East.

We basically did that for decades and the only thing that happened was we got INCREASED attacks on our embassies and ships.

FFC24, look what happened when Israel left Gaza, Hamas essentially declared war on PLA AND Israel... does that look to you like it's all the US' fault?
Note that Dubya is going AGAINST Congress and everyone else to fund the PLA RIGHT NOW. I dont necessarily agree with that, but he's trying to get some stability into the area.

 

I think that Hamas has some blame in this matter, but I will continue to say that the majority of the problems has been the creation of a Jewish state in the middle of the middle east. That doesn't happen and none of this crap goes on.