Energy Independence

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Clevelandmo, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    It will be fantastic if this technology coming from the great state of Texas pans out.


    A lot of experts have said it is impossible but here is what the CEO says

     
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  2. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    Thanks for the post, Mo.

    I'm embarrassed to say that Middle Eastern politics, sufi poetry, James Joyce novels, and Bob Dylan's mumbling are all easier for me to understand than this kind of stuff. I always wait for analysis of the distinguished gentleman from 52 miles away from the Crew's stadium.

    Hope it works, though.
     
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  3. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Middle Eastern politics is stretching it a bit Don.

    While I have great respect for 'Fog's knowledge on technology, I doubt his input will sway me on this one. Even if he was a world renowned expert on ultracapacitors, EEStor is being very secretive on this. It's a drama that has been going on for a while. EEStor says what their ultracapacitor technology will do, all the experts in the field say "no way", EEStor continues to get investors, and continues to make progress.
     
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  4. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    heh... thanks for the vote of confidence!

    Always remember take these things with a grain of salt. There's not a single competent startup that will ever understate his product or technology.

    On reading the article, I was immediately struck by "Will recharge in 3 to 5 minutes". Well... Not at your freakin' HOUSE, it aint!
    - The average occupied and functioning house uses about 5 kw. Recharging a 52kwh array in 6 minutes.. 520 KW power draw!
    Enough to dim the lights or blow the transformer in your neighborhood. If you didnt melt down the wiring first.

    Summa you might like to understand the difference between a battery and a capacitor.

    BAttery stores/generates power by chemical reaction.

    Capacitor stores voltage directly. The only heat generated is through electron movement - a big advantage. Note I said stores 'voltage'. That's because, unlike battery, voltage directly relates to the charge state.

    Another advantage is that a cap is relatively immune to charge voltage variation.
    Batteries need sophisticated voltage AND current regulators... the more sophisticated the battery tech, the touchier the limits.
    Unlike LiIon, Cap charging circuits should be relatively cheap. For instance if the cap array is designed for 110 or 220 volts the only components you need are a suitable AC to DC rectifier and a current limiting device.
    wiki: EEStor

    BTW: I like Mo posting this kind of thing... that's why I didnt quibble with her thread title. But we must note that suddenly switching to 10% of cars using ultracaps... or any plug-in electric... we gonna need more power generating stations.
    But, as noted in articles, the cap will help there, too. Can be used to smooth out power demands, charging at night ... addressing peak needs in day.
     
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  5. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Well, if that aint the Gods honest truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I always forget the practical. However, they have Lockheed Martin on board, one of the largest, if not the largest, defense contractors in the world. Most start-ups are just dealing with venture capital dudes.
     
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  6. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    GOOD NEWS for a change!

    Western PA gas reserves much larger than previously thought!

    More info on Marcellus

    A little cautionary note... if 'The Pickens Plan' is adopted, that would suit for about 2-3 years. But the infrastructure would lend to coal gasification in the same region.

    Good thing... as when Obama is elected, offshore drilling is going to be prohibited again. {Don... if you're gonna react same way as last time, support your angle!}
     
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  7. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    Ethanol firm declares Chap 11

    'due to high price of corn..'
     
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  8. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    RE: Ethanol firm declares Chap 11

    and just why was the cost of corn so high in the first place?

    Now if we can just lose EVERY ethanol firm ... .

    "please, baby, please, baby, baby, baby, please" -- Mars Blackman
     
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  9. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    Obama and Energy Independence

    On Clean Coal and Nukes....

    Coal: Go ahead but my policies will bankrupt you

    Nukes: sure.. find something else to do with the waste.. NOT in the bunker already built for it.
     
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  10. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    RE: Obama and Energy Independence

    Clean coal -- what a friggin' joke.
     
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  11. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    Re: RE: Obama and Energy Independence

    Why's that?

    It's expensive - at the moment- but the end product including process to do it is as CO2 neutral as natural gas.

    It's the CO2 harpies that are the joke, though.
     
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  12. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    I been thinking about this and find those two statements, taken together, alarming.
    Can you blame me for wondering about your political leanings?

    I'm NOT against all ethanol production just that which subtracts from other segments of the economy, and there's numerous technical ways of making coal 'clean', the most expensive of which involves Carbon sequestration... but as I said that really isnt necessary if you look at the climate as a whole.
    I'm almost afraid to ask what you think about nukes.

    Take it from me, and you've said you trust my posts on technology, there's no way that solar and wind are the answer without drastically reducing demand and even then then we will end up energy starved in terms of productivity growth.
    I want to make it clear that I understand McCain ALSO swallows that nonsense. The difference, I think, is in how the two administrations would define 'emissions'. I'm worried that Obama would take the measurement in gross release, not net release. In other words, if 'scientists' or 'experts' say there's a danger of that carbon EVER being released into the atmosphere, it will count against the cap.

    That's COMMON SENSE... and here's some more common sense: it would be a big-ass help if we could find a way to reduce 'lighting up the night' and save that energy for daytime use.

    Which could be done with the help of those super-caps.
     
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  13. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    In addition to tidal -- where possible -- hydroelectric -- where it already exists -- and whatever teeny weeny wind power we can get, I think I'd like to see:

    1. some sort of tax incentives to companies who produce more than 50% of their physical plants' electric requirements through solar energy devices on their own property.

    2. Petroleum, natural gas, and coal, phased out RAPIDLY in favor of nuclear power. There's plenty of other stuff we can do with petroleum and natural gas, but there's not a lot else we can do with nukes.

    Clean coal is to Appalachia as CORN ethanol is to Iowa -- it's all political, and it's all about presidential elections. Clean coal only exists in that somebody put the two words together. Coal is 19th century. It is inefficient, and it is outmoded. The reason it's in play at all is that we have so much of it. We used to be satisfied exporting to Poland and other places in Europe. Guess we don't do that much any more.

    As for you continuing to wonder about my political positions, perhaps it might be easier if you

    a. stop thinking that if someone believes something in one area, he MUST therefore also believe all these other things in other areas OR
    b. if you actually gave what I post a little thought once in a while.
     
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  14. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    You have to EXPLAIN what you post in order for me to understand it, Don.

    Se what you just did in that post?

    But I DO NOT agree that 'coal is outmoded' that's jingoism. Number of jobs saved/produced... that's another matter.

    and...
    That's unrealistic -even if output doubled from today's LAB tests on producable cells and costs decreased 90%, unless it's a retail store for non-perishables. I doubt even a large supermarket could do that.
     
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  15. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Exciting solar news

    .. well, until you read and think about it, or read the comments, then it's "Umm.. well, good!":

    Solar power game-changer: 'Near perfect' absorption of sunlight, from all angles

    In which the blurb is that this would compete with 'tracking arrays' which follow the sun's path. Umm yes, and no. Hold a sheet of paper between a light and wall, to make a shadow; now tilt the paper.. as if the light were moving. Less light striking surface! 96% of 50% less light is still less.

    Also this is not talking about 'conversion efficiency', only the light STRIKING and retained on the cell itself. Conversion from photon to electron a whole different thing.

    And as I wrote before... now you have to deal with the increased heat.

    Still... good job!
     
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  16. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    About those Septic Tank nukes

    It's about time someone addressed this commercially.... the basic technology has been around 50 years... though we can figure out why. Tree huggers!

    But the news manglers are missing the obvious application. I dunno where you live but in my little section of the 'Real America' there's three offline coal powered plants within a 30 minute drive. The structures are still there, anyway. And the feeder lines to 'the Grid'

    It would PROBABLY be a matter of 'plumbing to the existing turbines'. That would solve yet 'another environmental/infrastructure problem' as well, wouldn't it!
     
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