Well, now that I have had some time to think and read.. let me offer a few observations, some of which are tied to those old and tired arguments and grumblings, both here and on other sites: 1. 'NY didnt belong there.' - Yet they dominated play for the first 30 minutes of the game. Not by being thuggish but by simply tailoring their tactics to the Crew's style of play. Granted NY only made it by RSL, a technically very good team, by luck but isnt that why the game is played? Since when does Arse draw a 'gimme' against a relegation zone team? Why did FFC play the game at Anfield... why not just phone it in? - the whole idea of 'playoffs' is that a late blooming team, just beginning to gel end of season can make it all the way. worked didnt it? - Yet the Crew showed their class and superiority by not panicking and waiting for NY to tire of not getting results from their midfield play.. again, isnt that why they play 90 minutes+? 2. 'Thousands of empty seats' - Who was it didnt show up? That is the question to answer there. There were BLOCKS of empties. There were not thousands of tickets unsold.. probably less than one thousand. - Want to look back at the first SuperBowls? If you dont think there were empty seats, you dont know your US sports. What changed that? When the upstart Jets won it in '69. 3. 'An uninspiring game.' - This from Trecker, of all people. Hey, dumbass... you make some good points... but you have no new answers! The INSPIRATION came from the conference finals, remember? Do I have to do a recap of the nail-biting in Chi-Clb, RSL-NY? And note we didnt see bunkering on Sunday. 4. 'Playoffs are bush-league.' - Let me refer to a posted dream for hope and change on the Offal: "Who says we cant end 6th!!!!" If you dont get just how numb-skulled that is when applied to US sports, I cant argue against your views. Except to say you REALLY want US soccer to die. - In fact, MLS IS 'bush-league' in the US. Just like the NFL was in the forties, and still is in some purist eyes. 'I can only get enthused about Collich Football'! And do I have to mention NBA v NCAA Basketball? when did NBA games begin to sell out..hmmmmm? - In fact MLS is first division footy. NOT Premiership quality. Does that mean it's not worth paying attention to? What does that say about a person who claims to be a REAL FOOTY FAN? I can put it in one purist's words: "I wont bother with going to it until they have teams of top flight players..{and pay them accordingly}." Implicit in that seems to be that the stands will then fill up. AGAIN, as I've said .. no one knows for sure how to build team attendance, let alone the league. Columbus is an excellent example. Even purist crew fans were beginning to think Sigi had lost the plot. US fans dont like mediocrity.. there's very little '_ TID' in local fans.. I'd say just about as much as there should be. The only thing worse than a 'bandwagon fan' is a fan that will show up for game after game of crap play. Oh, they howl and they wear paper bags but they still show up. It's the ones who NO LONGER show up that influence the owners and management! Let me say that Don Garber -MARKETING GUY- is a freakin' putz and never should be allowed on screen in an awards ceremony. The MLS Cup award proves that. Yet he's done as much or more to grow the league as it needs to be done - opposed to how we fans WANT it to be done - as anyone else, previous. Want Sunil Gulati running it? Buelller.. Bueller.. anyone? Another example of seemingly trivial stuff changing things: What is the CREW secret to building it's rabid fan-base? There are TWO influences! First {and there's some who say this is bullshit} is TFC's fan enthusiasm. Anyone says this aint so is nuts. But what difference from the Fire's and DCU's? Simple.... We only saw their Ultra's when they traveled. OTOH, TFC was a bunch of good-natured drunks... and plenty sociable. no matter what you read on Crew BS.. THAT was attractive. SECOND: Crew management took away the 'NorthEnd' fan turf and put a stage there. And did away with the 'other fan sections' including the 'family friendly section' concept. Fan groups were assigned -mashed into- to ONE corner section {again, I believe, inspired by TFC}. Senior heads of the various groups worked it out and made it a PLUS. Now we see the fruits of the Nordecke! No longer just dispersed clusters of basement-dwelling nerds and wannabe Ultra's. You can tell the difference by just analyzing fan photo's between this and pre-Stage construction. And so does the media. In Columbus media, Nordecke was almost as big a story as the team itself. And it spilled over into watch parties on sunday. A studio-type theatre decided to show the game on Tuesday, on Sunday it was at 300 capacity with folks lining outside the door. Fado was packed, so were about 6 other soccer bar venues. Yeah... more than half the Nordecke are BANDWAGGONERS! So.....? Accounts have almost everyone in Section 125 {look it up} joining in with the Nordecke in the Chicago - East Finals. I sat there for ten freaking years and that never happened before. Close, but never really happened. Isnt that what we want for ALL the MLS clubs? wouldnt that help?
All good points, Jim. Let me add. We need for the MLS to hang on and solidify for another 10 years. We won't have the kind of fan loyalty we see elsewhere in the world -- or in other sports in the USA -- until we have a generation of young people mature into adults and inculcate their children into their passion. Remember Mikey's wedding stories? Remember hearing how when someone began singing "Stand-Up for Fulham" the first person on her feet was Katie? You get that by getting the fever from your mom and dad, who got it from THEIR etc. If we don't over-market, over-expand, over-think this league, I can see this happening in places like Columbus. There's plenty of fever from the fans right now. It's just waiting to be passed down over generations, like Washington Redskins season tickets being passed down in wills. One of the most fun things for me yesterday was hearing the Crew fans chanting "we're not finished" after they scored each of their goals. As for the quality of the play on the pitch, you're going to go a long way to top the quality of the Crew's third goal. We don't have anyone at FFC who can pass the ball the way GBS can. We don't have anyone who can rip a team apart with a high-speed flank run like what's-his-name for RBNY had. The quality of play and the amount of talent on the pitch is better now than it has been, and certainly better than it was during the NASL. We didn't produce any McBrides, Altidores, Chad Marshalls, Michael Parkhursts, or Clint Dempseys in that league. Even though most of my Saturday evenings are spent out of the house at gigs and all of my Thursday nights are spent at church, I still saw a ton of MLS football this season, certainly more MLS than MLB, and I'm damn sure going to watch more next season. So, well played the Crew. Well played Mr. GBS, Mr. Moreno, Mr. Marshall, and Mr. Scruffy Surfer Boy. And well done, MLS.
I proudly put down my mostly feigned MLB interest, and now keep one skeptical (but not necessarily negative, nor non-constructive) eye on MSL. I'll continue that practice for the time being.
I kept expecting a 'knuckle-infused' brawl to breakout in this thread but alas....peace. Nice thread guys. No commentary required.
I have a hard time following the train of thought in your post, but I think I get the point... You dont think the knocks are always deserved, but MLS needs some change - and that Fans are a good place to start, and there are models out there to show us the way. That said - the match was fine. I enjoyed it. It was not a 'big deal,' but it was significant enough for what it is. At some point I hope we get to an authentic football product, and I hope that we continue to demand progress toward it. Over time we will drive out the mentality to Americanize the game to appeal to people that dont give a crap anyway. The game - in its authentic and proven model - will win over the American suits who dont get it. I was VERY happy to see that the best team in MLS also won the playoffs. Hopefully this will happen again and again so that the 'playoffs' become just one of the cup competitions and winning the regular season will take its correct place as the ultimate prize. The problem is not the MLS Cup - it is the fact that it is viewed as saying something more than the fact that the team that won it was simply the best in that specific competition. Nobody would say that Spurs were the "Champion" of the EPL last season, and yet they won the Carling Cup and was a BIG DEAL... But Man Utd were the Champions. Over time - with a single table, international breaks, and the right financial incentive - league play will matter more and more and we will get a more authentic product because we will see full squads and a emphasis shift to the regular season. Relegation would obviously help move the focus to the regular season as well - maybe in the LONG term we will see this.
Jensers, bear with me. Your 'difficulty' in following me is that you got confused with my -numbered- points contrasted with my overall views on the state of the league RIGHT NOW IN OUR ENVIRONMENT! Take the point-making on the issues numbered first. What do you disagree with? THEN contrast with the general observations, after. I think everyone understands that we cant profitably get to the 'normal' {Euro} template in the very near future. Is it your position that we should go to it right now? Dont think so.. but how best to gravitate toward it? Do we agree we have to build the fan base first? Again, look at Columbus... which started as one of the strongest clubs in ticket sales.. look at how the fan base was pissed away over a decade. Columbus is not a Major Test Market for nothing, you know. - - - - - -- - - added: If you want to REALLY confuse things,look at this article on Fox Soccer Channel ratings.
1. I think you are right - NYRB showed that they could put up a resistance, and they won the games to get them there - so they had every right to be there. 2. Right away I noticed the empty seats. It looked like the majority of the attendees didnt have a horse in the race. Who didnt show? I am not sure - perhaps locals that didnt care who won, but were priced out of considering attending the match? 3. I read the article... I dont know that he was saying the sky is falling, but he did look at it with a harsh angle. I think he is like many of us - a football fan who feels a little duped, and that makes his views fairly pessimistic. 4. Bush league.. I am not sure on this one. You are saying that it is second class, but that we should expect it to be given the youth of the league. Here I agree and also disagree. Yes - we cannot expect overnight success, but there is a huge fanbase out there, and it isnt Dick, Jane, and their 2.5 kids. I am of the belief that there are enough football fanatics in this country that are not currently interested in MLS because of its lack of the basic structure and feel of an authentic football product, and that if MLS were to make a few changes - these same people would get interested, fill the seats, create a larger grassroots movement, and create a league with a stronger foundation. I see this having less to do with cost and notoriety of players and more to do with the culture of the game. There needs to be a single, linear organization of football competition level. The everyman and the everyman club needs to see a direct line to MLS. Clubs in MLS need to show that they earned the right to be there, and that need to continue to prove that they have the right to stay there. Right now it feels like the football world in this country is too schizophrenic! MLS, USL, the youth system with club, Pdl's, 'academies,' odp, etc... None of which is community based or has a community feeling with community pride attached to it. It is like nobody knows what the hell anyone else is doing and they are fighting a turf war for land that is not connected to anything real or meaningful - and thus, down the line, winning the MLS doesnt mean that much. SO - yes. We need to start with the fan base, but they (US Soccer, MLS, USL, State Organizations, NCAA, NAIA, NCJCAA, Youth, Highschool, Coaching Organizations, ODP Programs) need to do more than just organize the stadium... They need to organize the system of football in this country so we all can all understand what the stink is going on!! While that is happening - yes - limp MLS along and sort out ways to make the matches fan friendly and work to make it the most attractive product possible. Is there something more to the loss of fans at Columbus than the fact that the team has been crap for so long? Will TFC have the same decline if they dont start winning? These are not rhetorical - I am really asking...
It isnt family related.. yet it is? I'm sorry but that cuts against grain of all the sports in the US with the POSSIBLE exception of the NBA. Otherwise, I think you have well considered the points. Why? Are you saying we need a soccer quasi-government? A soccer czar?!!! Anyone else want to handle this? The problem with Columbus was that the fans FELT the FO and the Hunts thought everything would just fix itself given time. That we should be REAL footy fans .. just because it's there. Same as Mike Brown does. ...Perception, remember. Well, Columbus wont put up with a coach who cant beat Michigan and they wont fall into the same trap as Cleveland and Cincy with its underperformers. Check Bluejacket attendance. Given plenty of time but seen no team improvement. Additionally there was seen to be too much club loyalty, sticking with the old vets for good positions, AND on the field, rather than a more realistic -mix/match- old blood with new. Sigi broke that mold, to a large extent but there's worry that FO thinks Sigi could go to Seattle and Bobby Warzycha would carry on nicely. 'Same Ol'!!' Also just as there was an independent outreach directly to the fans on the part of the Crew PR director, he was suddenly 'found redundant'. That didnt help. TFC? We have to see. Certainly TFC didnt help themselves much, this season. Or with not keeping a proven manager when they had one.
I dunno... I mean, I love Dane Richards, but I'd probably give Bouazza or a healthy Kamara even odds with him in a sprint, but they can't simply gash defenses over and over with their pace because defenders are quicker and better in the Prem.
I was just happy to be there, and to have New York qualify for the first time. I'm sick of people talking about how New York didn't deserve to be there. I emailed Trecker and told him I was surprised that he, of all people, would make such a cheap comment, and actually try to pass it off as a fact rather than his opinion. Fact #1: New York qualified for the playoffs under the current system. Fact #2: New York beat the 2-time "defending champs" 4-1 on aggregate. Fact #3: New York defeated RSL 1-0 in the Conference Final. We deserved to be playing Columbus in the MLS Cup. And furthermore, we deserved to lose. The fairy tale had to end with Columbus winning, as they had the best record in the league and had made it through the playoffs, just as we did. I wasn't mad, just disappointed. I think that was the consensus . . no anger, just disappointment. Both teams were competing for the Cup in the final match for the first time in each team's history. We brought the aguante, whether we won or lost, and we're still proud. Congrats to Columbus. Forza Metro.
