Self-Esteem Trophies

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Thought I heard a caller call in from up your way.

 

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Unfortunately it seems the tone of some of my posts have been mistaken and if they came across as berating Christian I apologize. I like Christian and I enjoy trading opinions with him. I think I can safely say, without hurting his feelings, that we are both opinionated people but our barbs are traded in good fun and will be kept that way. Afterall, if you only have discussions with those that think the way you do you are no longer challanged to think and stop growing.

This is not the first time Christian and I have disagreed on a subject and while I do disagree with him about the certificates I think some of the things his organization are doing are brilliant. I love the idea of individual awards for outstanding performers on each team. I think it is a great way to encourage kids to work on their individual skills and recognize them for doing so. I wish my kids league would consider something of that nature to be honest. My opinions were only thrown out as food for thought and only because Christian asked for differing perspectives.

 

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BP, I thank you, and everyone else, for your perspectives. Yes, I asked, and boy did I receive. ALL food for thought!

 

Like RidgeRider I find 'Bhoy's hardass line on trophies for 8 yr olds amusing considering his politics in the real world with adult people. However, I have to say that I totally agree with his position on this one. Not that I complain or make a stand against the participation trophies that my kids recieve, but here are my thoughts:

- No plastic trophy for participating is ever going to be responsible for a kid continuing to play soccer. However his/her coaches, parents, friendships, and experience on the field will.

- None of us want to emphasize winning at the youth level over learning, loving the game, and sportsmanship but you cant totally take it out of the game by contrivances either. The kids dont want you to. They actually care about winning until we all teach them not to. It is a fine line to walk and I dont think one approach works with all groups of children, but you just have to do your best.

- Participation trophies and medals may mean something to some kids but nothing means more to kids, or adults for that matter, than looking them in the eye and telling them they did a good job or you appreciate what they have done. If you want to keep the kids coming back do that. If you just shove some trophy in their hand without looking at them or saying something, they know it doesnt mean anything.

- When Christian talked about "underserving" kids, I pictured a kid who was forced to play soccer by his parents and mostly just acted silly or stood around and picked daisies. He/she didnt want to be there, didnt try or care much and then he gets a trophy for it. I've always wondered what goes through that kid's head when he gets his trophy. "Gee, they're stupid for giving me this" or "Gee, a reward for nothing, this is easy" or "gosh, now my Dad will think I'm good and I'll have to keep playing". Whatever the kid is thinking, I cant imagine it's healthy.

- Giving all the kids trophies devalues trophies that are given to reward excellence. If the kid that doesnt care gets a trophy and the kid who works hard and excels gets a trophy, what does that say? I dont care if the trophies are different sizes, to me it teaches the kids that hard work and excellence doesnt matter.

- Trophies for participation are a waste of resources - not just the money spent to buy them for thousands of kids but they also clutter our homes and will pollute future trash dumps. In short, it is environmentally irresponsibe and wasteful to give them out willy nilly.

- I think this trophy pc stuff originated from childhood stories of kids giving up on sports at a young age because they werent any good. I would wager these stories had more to do with not getting to play or being made fun of by the other players than by not receiving a trophy. Teaching teamwork and respect and letting all the kids play in games is the only way to solve the problem - not a trophy.

I could go on and on about this but I've already said too much.

Hats off to you Whitesbhoy for making a stand, the kids will survive. What you are doing day to day in that league of yours is what will make the difference. Trophies? We dont need no stinking trophies.

 

Believe it or not Mo I agree with most of what you and Christian had to say for a competitive soccer league. It is why I encourage my kids to play travel soccer because there is an abundunce of life lessons to be learned by playing competitive sports both on the winning and losing sides. However, this is the one statement that you and I and Christian will have to agree to disagree on when it comes to recreational leagues especially with younger kids.

From my experience in both running and and coaching youth sports leagues what you are rewarding by giving awards only to the winning teams of recreational leagues all to often is the excellence of one player or perhaps two individual players and not the excellence of the overall team. There are a lot of kids that don't care that wind up on first place teams because there are other players on the team that can carry them. There are also a lot of kids that care and work hard on losing teams because of the others that have been randomly placed on their teams. I have coached bad teams with outstanding individual players that have finished well in leagues and others that worked very hard as a team and still finished poorly.

I am not necessarily advocating trophies for all recreational league players but I am advocating some type of award or reward that will put a smile on a kids face at the end of the season. In truth most kids work hard in practice and play hard in the games. Some are just not as talented as others and no matter how hard they work they never will be. If an organization handed coupons for a free ice cream along with participation certificates or told the coaches that the league will reimburse them $x for receipts they turn in for an end of year pizza party I would say that was an ample reward for those that worked hard and just did not happen to finish in first place.

 

Post of the freakin' year!!! :rock:

 

I dunno about post of the year, but she sure convinced me. And I would SURE vote for definitive logical conclusion of the issue on this thread.

Good work, Mo!!!!!! And no, you DIDNT say too much. I think it was just right. You cant answer with just 'my opinion is...', you have to give reasons... and you gave great reason!

 

I'm still with Barry on this. Mo's email gave some good reasons why not to give them but I still know my kids really appreciate them, and I appreciate my kids. So, if it were me, I would still give them out.

 

The hard-ass, who thinks earning a trophy through achievment teaches more than just handing them out, in action: http://jpsisports.com/p985267297/h8dfc5af#h8dfc5af

The "controversial" awards ceremony: http://jpsisports.com/p632622421

Great photos, especially the action ones: http://jpsisports.com/f498019554

ENJOY, if you have some time and find this at all interesting!!

 

Looked and appreciated....

{Why did I flash on Don Garber just then?}

:twisted:

 

Nice PCB.

My 5 year old has been sleeping with his participation trophy since he got it on Saturday. My daughter, alas, has to wait because some broke from her team so they our handing them out later. Soccer is over! Now I won't have anymore excuses to leave the chatroom.

 

If you run a soccer league, or any other sport, it is never over it is only getting ready to restart!

BTW Great job for helping to make it possible for kids to get out and play hard-ass!

 

Well, truth be told indoor will be next starting in January as I, once again, remain unaware of the goings on in my community as it pertains to sports leagues.

 

See BP and I really do agree more than we disagree. He could not be more right about soccer just getting ready to re-start. Early February are sign-ups for Spring Super Cup 2009!

Play hard-ass or don't play at alll!! (Kidding.)

One thing I HAVE thought about more though, is BPs statements regarding my fostering an approach that has led USA soccer no where in the past. I have to disagree with that assessment. I think the coddling of kids and over-PC approach to particularly soccer, is at least partly a cause and effect of our inability to compete effectively on an international stage. As soon as we come to grips with the fact that soccer is a sport, created by grown men to be played by grown men, and not some glorified daycare, we'll move forward competitively........if that is what we want. If we want to keep soccer around to mostly "build childrens' self-esteem", well then, we've got bigger problems than just our economy.

 

At least you are dialed in to the Participation Trophies though.

 

Had to have the last word....didn't you?

 

I had promised myself I was finished with this thread except I can’t be because that statement addresses nothing about what I actually said. Somewhere in your thought process you have come to the belief that I care about "coddling" kids by giving them trophies. Honestly I do not. One of the recreational leagues my kids play in has no awards at the end of the season and I think that is the best system possible. What’s wrong with playing the game because you love it and the only reward being the win at the end of the day? Let’s do however look at what I actually said:

What have I seen over the years in youth soccer that I loathe and caused me to make that statement? Parent coaches sticking Johnny Rocket up front and telling the rest of the team to kick it long so he or she can run onto the ball and score so the team has a better chance of winning. To counter that the other coach will stick defenders back in front of the goalie instead of teaching them to play properly. All of this is done in the name of winning. Is this going to happen whether you award trophies or not? Yes. Is it more likely to happen if you award trophies only to the winning team? In my opinion it is and the problem is not with the kids. Competitive adults often want to win as much or sometimes more than competitive children. The problem is they will also take short cuts in coaching to achieve their goal of winning. If you have paid coaches who are going to teach soccer skills regardless of wins and losses then the above statement does not apply. However, if you have parent volunteers as coaches some of them are going to care more about winning and getting their kids a trophy then teaching their kids a new skill. That to me is a huge problem

What do I truly care about? I care about creating an environment where kids can learn soccer skills and I care about it passionately. For me teaching kids to play by teaching them skills is the be all and end all of a recreational soccer league. For me winning should be the by-product of teaching fundamental soccer skills and not the primary objective especially at younger age groups. I also think that learning to win and lose is an important lesson in life. In losing we can find our weaknesses and work to improve ourselves. In winning we can celebrate the abilities we have honed. However, at some point someone has to give a child the opportunity to fail without repercussions. While awarding trophies only to the winning team may produce the incentive for some kids to work harder it also may produce the incentive for some parent coaches to teach soccer poorly.

I was given the best piece of "quit sitting on your ass" advice I have ever received from the former president of my kids soccer league when I told him that I did not like the way my sons team was being coached. He told me that if I didn't like what I saw that I should get involved and help change things and I have either been a coach an assitant every year since. I truly meant it when I said congratulations on making it possible for kids in your area to play soccer. I know what you are doing can some days feel like a thankless job but I hope one day you get to see one of these kids flourish at some higher level whether they received a trophy, a particpation certificate or just a pat on the back from a coach who told them to keep trying maybe next time it will work.

 

When it's their child doing it. :lol: