Is she qualified!?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by andypalmer, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

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    Baltimore, MD
    'fog. I already poo-poo'd your Google trends "evidence" as non sequiter.

    As for "you can't get exit polled if you don't go to vote"; you DID notice the record voter turnout rates didn't you? Among Independents and Moderate Republicans, Palin was a relatively close 2nd behind the economy as to why they voted for Obama. The question you should ask yourself were these Moderate Republicans voting for Democrat Obama or against Moderate Republican McCain. For the latter, you have to ask yourself why, and Palin becomes the obvious answer.

    I have a lot of conservative Republican friends and, in the weeks before the election, not one was touting Palin as a a positive to the ticket. It was "McCain this" and "McCain that" with Palin only being acknowledged, when forced, and with obvious embarrassment. Granted, these are all college educated people and I can see how she might appeal to blue collar conservatives, but to those who paid attention to her interviews and the debate, saying she fell flat is a significant understatement.

    The GOP needs to hope that she is out of the picture in 4 years, or the next election will make this election look close.
     
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  2. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    It's "fact" that I'm not a "real American" because my policy views are different than Palin's? The other stuff that you're throwing in is unrelated to what I said; way to change the subject.
     
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  3. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    How about giving me a link to that. Do you know what the context was? Dont make it to a youtube clip where she's cut off in mid sentence.

    Otherwise I consider it no more than any other shot from the hip. Of course, you are a real american. Barack Obama is a real american.

    Somehow I have the feeling that her comments werent directed at you. They were directed at her audience.

    Ah.. hell. Here it is

    Felt excluded did you?

    Geezz....
     
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  4. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    Yes, because the article you found isn't at all removed from context.

    Oh please. She apologized after saying what she said because she's a politician and there was a backlash. The statement she made was clear and if she didn't mean it then she wouldn't have said it. Obviously they weren't directed at me, since she was speaking to an audience in one of the "pro-America" parts of the country.

    Are you really so very party-line that you can't admit that what she said was ridiculous and offensive?
     
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  5. dtwondough

    dtwondough New Member

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    jmh, have you never said anything that you didn't mean or was taken out of context? if so, good for you, but I know I have. I'm not defending the governor, but from reading what she said, I think I interpret it differently.
     
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  6. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    I'm sure I have. That being said, if you say that it's nice to be speaking to people in one of the pro-America parts of the country, it's implied that there are other areas that are less or not at all pro-America. The statement is meaningless otherwise.
     
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  7. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2005
    it was only offensive if it was offensive to you, apparently.

    Ill give you an example that relly should hit home.

    If you travel to Paris for a week, do you then say "Yes.. I've to France." ?

    I spent two weeks over two trips in Paris and never got more than 1/2 mile away from the Metro. I never visited FRANCE... I visited Paris. I was in London 4 months but that's a little different.. but still dont say I know ENGLAND.

    You live in New York City. Do you know what I think when a Frenchman or Englishman says "Oh, yes... I've been to the US. I love the country."

    "Oh, what parts have you seen?"

    "New York, Los Angeles and Las Vegas"

    heh.. Well, sorry. I love New York but if you havent been out to the boonies in any great measure you dont know what the F#@$k you're talking about.
     
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  8. jmh

    jmh New Member

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    What the heck did any of that have to do with anything?

    Obviously it's only offensive if it's offensive to a given person. That's a truism. If I call John Doe a giant stupid asshole with the brain of a goat, it's only offensive if it's offensive to John Doe, which presumably it will be. If Sarah Palin describes some parts of the country as pro-America and thereby implies that others are less so, those of us who live in those parts of the country that are implicitly less so (she sure wasn't talking about Texas or Alabama) will presumably be offended.

    I'm sorry but I think you're going to have to get used to the fact that Sarah Palin is going to produce visceral negative reactions in those of us who live in "anti-America parts of the country" in much the same way that Hillary Clinton produces that kind of reaction for many Republicans.
     
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  9. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

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    'fog. Your attempted analogy fails on so many levels it would be humorous if it weren't so sad.

    Saying that you've been to France because you've been to Paris is a simply truth. Saying that you know France because you know Paris is an exageration, but in an of itself is not insulting unless you paired the statement with some other descriptive dialogue.

    Saying that part of the US is "pro-American" makes the clear statement that there are other parts that are "anti-American"; by mentioning the "pro-American" adjective, you are purposely qualifying your statement with a descriptor that is set up for the express purpose of making comparison.

    Or, to sum up, just another example of Palin's poor form and lack of class.
     
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  10. Clevelandmo

    Clevelandmo Active Member

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    Sep 13, 2007
    I'm no particular fan of Palin and wish McCain had not nominated her. However, maybe these types of "ProAmerica" comments from politicians will cease when east and west coasters stop referring to the rest of the country as "fly-by states". Or when my "cosmopolitan" friends here in Cleveland stop talking about how they could never live in Texas even though they've never been there and dont realize that there are some cities in Texas that are a lot more liberal in many respects than Cleveland. You guys all know the type of attitude that I'm talking about, and it is arrogant and bigoted. I think the "ProAmerica" comments are somewhat deserved.
     
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  11. dtwondough

    dtwondough New Member

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    What She said.

    It exists on both sides. For instance, living in boulder county colorado is not easy for 1)A republican and 2)Mississippi Native. When I pointed out the reasons I was voting McCain it didn't matter what I said. I actually had someone say "of course you are, just a redneck from Mississippi." Stereotypes are placed on individuals by others. Just something I've accepted to live with.
     
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  12. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    but did they call you a traitor? Did they say that you hate America? Did they say that you wanted to surrender to the terrorists?
     
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  13. dtwondough

    dtwondough New Member

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    Don, Labels are labels. And how one person interprets it is completely discretationary. I didn't read where she called anyone a traitor or that they hated America. I do think there are different levels of patriotism and how it's showns. For instance, drive around rural Mississippi and you will see flags on most homes. Everyone stands for the national anthem. Everyone removes their hats. Come to Colorado, not always the case. I consider it respect more that patriotism, but I can see both sides of the argument.
     
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  14. Bradical

    Bradical Member

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    Hey, living in Boulder isn't easy for a Libertarian, either...

    dtwondough, Question: What future century would it have to be for Mississippi to nominate a black man for President? Also, how long does one have to drive around Mississippi before seeing a Confederate flag? I'm not being antagonistic, just curious.
     
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  15. dtwondough

    dtwondough New Member

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    I'm assuming by nominate, you mean vote for election. I think it could happen in this century. Don't get me wrong, sure there is racism, but it's no different than living in colorado. True story, I had a guy say to me when I first moved up here that he wasn't racist, but the hispanics in colorado needed to go. It's amazing how many people see racism as black/white in this country.

    And if you flew into Jackson, MS, you wouldn't have to drive far, our state flag has the confederate flag still on it. I'm not sure when, probably 10 years ago, they voted on whether the flag should be changed. Surprisingly, it was no but a large number, but more surprisingly was that the vote was not along racial lines. But, we've managed to hijack this thread. I'll talk for days about the confederate flag. Do I personally have one hanging in Longmont, no, but I'm not as sensitive about it either. I really think there is more senstivity outside of the South than in the South, from my experiences.
     
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  16. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    So, have you two gotten together for a match yet? I mean, yer neighbors! I'm only asking, because the very conservative FulhamAg and the very liberal HatterDon had a great time swilling pints and trying to ignore the cute young ladies in their tartan skirts. Politics hardly entered into the day.
     
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  17. dtwondough

    dtwondough New Member

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    You know, we haven't. Brad, that is something we need to do. I thought you were down in Denver though. If you are in boulder, how about sunday morning?
     
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  18. Bradical

    Bradical Member

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    Apr 22, 2008
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    HD-

    Unforunately, dtwondough and Bradical have not made it to a match yet. Bradical has not made it to the English Bulldog for a match since the Arsenal win, largely because he has been busy moving, marrying, and honeymooning, while still carrying on in a rockband since then.

    I don't think that politics would be an issue at all, I almost never bring it up (credit to pettyfog for being a catalyst) - plus, we're both in the numbers business, so plenty of common ground.

    Dwtondough - unfortunately Sunday's a no-go, but if you have any interest in catching my band (The Vergers) play, we'll be at Bender's (13th and Grant) tonight and Lion's Lair (2022 E Colfax) on Saturday night.
     
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  19. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

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    That would be a coolness. FulhamAg is the only guy on this site to actually hear us play live. Check 'em out, dtwon!

    Oh, and congrats on the nuptuals, Bradical!
     
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