Wes Clark sez...

But Don he did of course go to war in Iraq on the flimsy pretense which was used. He whole heartedly voted for and supported the war. The neo cons sold it and McCain bought it. The war which caused us to take our eye off the ball in Afghanistan. Not to mention McCain's desire for a century long military presence on Iran's doorstep, setting up a new showdown, just as the neocons advocate. Military service or not these actions as a politician speak for them self.

If I didn't know any better I'd say you should vote for that Obama fella 8)

 

I am particularly proud of our country for having gotten rid of Saddam Hussein's horrible regime. Supporting the War is not something anybody should be ashamed of, in my opinion. The post-invasion was intially messed up, but the Bush administration has learned from its mistakes and is putting the next President it a much better position than a year or two ago.

War is ugly and disgusting, but unfortunately we live in a violent world with very bad people in it, like Saddam, Kim Jung Il, Robert Mugabe and the Sudanese government, which makes doing ugly and disgusting things a must.

I'm voting for Obama, by the way. He's ruthless like Caesar. Watch out Osama, here comes Obama!!!

 

Back to the point:

It surprises me that Clark's statement that McCain's 5 years in captivity didnt teach him anything about being a 'president' was not immediately turned back on him. But I didnt think of it, and neither did anyone else that I read.

Oh, I nibbled at it when I pointed to Clark's order to attack Russians and I'm sure that was most prevalent to everyone else.

The KEY element, however was not brought up... McCain could have been released early as a political gesture. As the son of a prominent naval officer, his release would remove an identifiable face in the ranks of POW captives. And been a PR coup for NV's cause.

Surely, when given the choice McCain, who was otherwise just another pilot, must have thought about it. He might even have thought about whether or not the war was just and whether we should have been there in the first place, and his role in that war.

In the end, John McCain, under at least SOME degree of pressure, decided that it wouldnt be right for him to accept a privilege not offered to others in captivity. And that his release would score propaganda points for the enemy.

Sounds Presidential to me.

Under perhaps the same degree of personal pressure, Wes Clark made the wrong decision in ordering an attack on Russian military units.

Here's another guy who came to the same conclusion...but all I had to do is read the head, to think about what I wrote above.

Why McCain's Captivity Matters

 

McCain is out there constantly playing up the "Look at me! I'm a hero! I was held in a prisoner of war camp!" stuff all the time. Christ, last week, he even tried to claim that his time as a POW made his healthcare plan better! :roll:

If the right-wing loons don't want McCain's credentials examined, then stop touting his time as a POW as somehow connected to his ability to be President.

Clark specifically HONORED McCain for his service and for his sacrifices, but merely pointed out the fact that despite all of the righties playing up McCain's "war hero" status, being held as a POW does not have any bearing on one's qualifications for President.

As always, the bed-wetting righties, being wholly incapable and unable to respond logically or coherently, just spout their usual fake outrage and hand-wringing, crying about something Clark never said.

 

It is a bad idea on a personal level, but a point that resonates with many (as evidenced by many on this website) and has the desired result of somewhat neutralizing the political effectiveness of McCain's or the Republican's use of that no doubt terrible experience.

Which really, is probably a good thing. Being a POW absolutely shows the mettle of this man, but does not exactly show how great his decision making was, or is.

 

Which means you totally dismiss my take on it?

Granted, you cant apply one stressful situation to another in a totally different environment, but it DOES show a measure of the man outside of his ability to withstand privation.

 

Pretty much. It's just your opinion. I don't put much weight in it.


No offense, of course. I'm sure you understand.

 

Ah, but the Swift Boat Veterans kinda put a new twist on it, just looking at it from a spin perspective.

 

Ah, well... then perhaps I need to point out AGAIN, the topic title is WES CLARK SEZ..

The issue is what Wes Clark says for national consumption and the supposed context in which he says it. When a national figure critiques someone else's bona fides, it is from HIS context that you judge it.

The POINT IS - Wes Clark is the WRONG sockpuppet to make that statement. It doesnt matter that he is technically correct it matters that his history is far from admirable, let alone full of success.

The POINT is that anyone who runs on service to the country or comments on another's service, needs to have that examined. We'll just cut to the chase and say McCain made the right decision at the pivotal time... otherwise he wouldnt be a Senator, just a footnote in Nam war history.

The fallout is that, once again, Obama's campaign is embarrassed by even the casual person who pays attention to such things erupting in hoots and derision, not on the facts but who is advancing them. And once again, Obama has to cut someone loose in one way or another.

In the larger picture which is far more important, it boils down once again to those Barry associates with, now and in the past. Will it hurt him? No... it hasnt bothered anyone to the point of double figures approval drops that so many former and current Marxist/Maoist/World socialists are crawling out into the light to support Obama. Or how many of his campaign staffers have Che posters on their office walls.

That the only thing Barry ever managed was community action programs, doesnt seem to faze. The point that NONE of the final three EVER managed anything (sorry.. Clark is also technically right on being a Squadron Commander) is troubling... but that's what we've got.
- - -- - - - -
As far as 'Swift-Boating', if you step back and look at it, I'm pretty sure the only thing that made an impression on the average voter, from all the pissing contests, was that John Kerry misremembered the date he was in Cambodia, that he got three purple hearts from minor wounds and left early, then testified on US war crimes. They wont even remember that the pal he testified with was a lying phony.

And of course his intro at the convention... which was a BIG mistake.

- - - - -- -
By the way, a heads-up... this wont be the LAST silly sally at McCain's wartime record. His own plane was involved in the biggest carrier fire disaster during the war.
It's on record and it's on youtube. I expect it to be put front and center.... something like "John McCain: always at the wrong place at the wrong time"

 

It's the same place as Obama's waffling Don. We cant comment on each and every embarrassment.

The latest Che-lover is a judge and Obama campaign organizer in Toledo. If you want, I'll look it up.

And if you want I'll email you links to each and every leftist insignifica .. like I said, I aint gonna put em all here, it's embarrassing.

It seems odd that you STILL dont get it.. it has nothing really to do with McCain. It has to do with campaign bullshit. and like I said, who is behind Barack and what they say.

If you WANT I can also email links on White-power support for Barack because THEY believe that one term and that's the end of race-relations going forward.

 

If you think McCain (Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, etc) all voted for the Iraqi war resolution under the flimsy pretense of the neo cons, you are deluding yourself. They all had their own brains, their own staffs, direct experience with the Iraqi issue, their own agendas, and their sworn duty. Blaming this on evil-doing neo con manipulation is so lame. Here is what President Clintion said about Iraq in 1998

Taken from his speech to the joint Chiefs of Staff; here is entire text

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/ ... nton.iraq/

 

If I had to put him in a pocket, I'd put him in 'Third World apologist'... which is what I've said all along, isnt it?

It aint the labels, Don.. it's the words, actions and results. Isnt that the meme on Dubya?

 

Way to go, Mo. But you forgot J Rockefellers's ringing speech, the 14 UNSC resolutions ignored, the fact that GoI is looking to sue the UN on its sanction and participation in the Oil for Food fraud...and my personal favorite drive-by:

"If Dubya lied on the WMD, why didnt we find them?"

I know the answer, I've written the answer ...but some think it's too silly. Even though it was Saddam doing it. He destroyed most and shipped the rest to Syria, so they couldnt be used against him.. AND didnt list the WMD's as disabled so his enemies would think he still had them.

Added: News that GoI has now met 15 of 18 benchmarks is met with Dem response that it's too slow; they aint doing enough, quick enough. Never mind it's lightning speed compared to what the Dem congress is getting done on our own problems.

Why the hell dont the Dems just use the progress in Iraq as proof they were RIGHT in pushing withdrawal on a timeline? It was THEM who made it happen by threatening to pull out!

Win-Win, right?