The big divide..

Glad to see a lot of conservatives on this site. I am just starting a career change and going into education, and I am definately outnumbered by those on the left. I once was a democrat -- My name is rcl19 and I am a recovering liberal :lol:

I was in Iraq, I had the privilege of serving my country and bringing 12 soldiers home with zero purple hearts among them and a 100 percent record for completing missions. A lot more happened over there that was positive than the media reported in 2003-2004, and I have no doubt that is the case now.

Amen, and as my commander in chief (if I was still in the Army, which I am not), I would respect her as such, and give her the support that the earned as a result of being elected. Too many people on both sides of the political fence miss that point.

 

Great post!

What rcl is talking about is that during the immediate post victory our ground units were doing many of the same thigns that are proving so successful in the 'surge' paradigm. they were working with locals, especially the sheiks and clan elders, to provide security and structure for Iraqis and get things back to normal as much as possible.

From the beginning of the occupation, after firefights ALL wounded, US, bystanding civilians, and 'insurgents' alike, are taken to the nearest triage points for medical treatment. I've seen that written on 'embed reports' many times. How often have you seen it in the MSM? Or heard politicians refer to it?

Yet the shameless politicos see fit to bring up asininities like: "to get their heads blown off for the Presidents amusement".. and during floor debate on a domestic entitlement program, no less.

Yet we DARE not call THEM anti-american.. or traitors to the values and practices of Americans under fire.

I WILL call Pete Stark a treasonous bastard! I WILL call John Murtha a traitor to the values of the Marine Corps... which has evolved after Viet Nam into a far better rapid reaction force than it ever was when he was in it. I WILL call Murtha's grandstanding, ANTI_GOP agenda, all the while he is feeding at the trough filled by tax dollars, as exercising anti-american values.

Not so much for what they say... as for when and where they say it.

Put it this way... there are those who called the original Henry Ford a Nazi-sympathizer and a fascist. And there are truths to that. But when his country called on him, he converted his plants to war production and made the best weapons possible. He upheld his own beliefs by refusing to make a penny from weapon manufacturing.

You COULD write a book (although many have already been written) on how Rumsfeld was only making the best out of the Clinton Administration's downsizing of the military. That Rumsfeld didnt get it right is beside the point. To capitalize on that paradigm,, especially to try to find the exceptional outrage, is indeed hypocritical.

To trump up those outrages by lies and deceit, using false testimony and lying about 'first hand experiences', is treasonous.

 

rcl19 thanks so much for your service to our country. Right now I have my arms raised and am bowing, a gesture that is usually reserved for our arrogant, megarich athletes after they slamdunk or hit a home run. You deserve it much more than most if not all of them. I recall some NBA all stars who wouldnt represent their country in the olympics because they were worried about their safety.

Also, I really appreciate what you and Pettyfog said about respecting and supporting our President. What happen to that notion?

 

Excuse ME?

You damn betcha clinton was whined griped, made fun of.. and that's one thing. Dont put words in my mouth or paint me with some 'Michael Savage' brush.

Let's just look back at the two different reactions when respective presidents asked to kill the armenia genocide resolutions.

I just TOLD you under what conditions I label someone treasonous.. you either get it or you dont. It is NOT free speech, there are other places times and contexts for that.

Besides, Bobby Kennedy Jr already set the bar on what can be called treason and my views are WELL within that boundary. If YOU dont like it tough!

Your damn right your wartime service qualitfies you... but only as much as anyone else in the country.. veteran or not.

When ones actions can do nothing to advance the national interests and are likely to harm the national security, well being, or put soldiers and citizens in harms way, then what do you call it?

Heh... Don you once said I wouldnt dare say that to Murtha's face.
First I dont understand why more people wouldnt. Second I dont understand why it seems I wouldnt.

sure's hell, I be nervous at the opportunity, and afraid it would come out as simply some idiot parroting .. but I sure WOULD NOT hesitate. What makes you think these people are above face to face harsh criticism?

I just suggest, Don... that you can easily counter my arguments on Murtha by showing all he has done to support the military and his country. I DONT mean by trying to get them home soon as possible.

 

Don, I will raise my arms and bow to you for your service to our country. Thanks.

I dont remember such bumper stickers about Charlton Heston but then maybe it is a function of where we live. I lived in Boston, England, and a suburb of Cleveland that is 99% democratic during the Clinton years. Given the fact that there is nothing I believe in more strongly than our need for gun control, such a bumper sticker would have infuriated me and I would have remembered it.

I thought the posts were clear about the difference between criticizing policy/a president's decisions and respecting/supporting the president and our democracy. You can do both. I was completely against going into Iraq. I was in disbelief when we did and couldnt understand how we would be able to take Saddam out without utter choas after what we saw happen to Yugoslavia. But once we went in, they had my support and I hoped for the sake of our country and our military that it would be as successful as possible. I hope the surge is successful. Am I a "blind follower" for this? Should I instead hope that more Iraqi's and Americans die by the thousands and the middle east implodes? No, I happen to believe that the military has a better chance to succeed if their fellow countrymen believe they can be successful and support them. Since I'm not serving, I feel that is the least that I can do and I feel it is my duty as a citizen.

Again, where I live I dont hear people who criticize the President called "terrorists" and "haters of America". Maybe you hear that in Texas. I dont think that they are terrorists. However, when I hear congressmen or the media lie, exaggerate, and distort for the sake of party or headlines I think it is dispicable. I am so tired of hearing congressmen say Bush got us into this war through lies and deceit. Last time I checked, the Constitution requires Congress to declare war. What did our Congress, Repubs and Dems alike, do? Give Bush a blank check to declare war. That's cowardice of the first order and a failure to uphold their sworn duty. Also, last time I checked the UN, the Clinton Admin, and most of the free world thought Saddam had WMDs. So where's the lie?

I think rcl19's post, which I agreed with in mine, was also clear that too many people "on both sides of the fence" dont support and respect their leaders and, therefore, the democracy that elected them. This isnt a liberal vs conservative issue. It is more important at the present, though, because we are at war and lives are on the line.

 

Well, I guess that's the point Don.. I DO respect your views in regard to why we shouldnt have gone into Iraq.

What bothers me is the constant drive-buy, 'Bush lied' mantra. Whenever those statements are specifically challenged, the focus ALWAYS seems to change. Not just by you... by ANYONE who says them. The nearest justification is ALWAYS "well, it's all in the nuance"

And you could elevate the debate a WHOLE lot if you didnt act as though my disgust about scumbags like Murtha wasnt a kick to your nuts.

The infuriating thing is that the EXACT same memes and sometimes even down to the wording is then repeated in videos by our enemies.

the POINT here is the continuous use of the controversy IN EVERY FREAKING debate, just to bash the opposition and placate the weevils on the fringe.
See Pete Stark on how SCHIP is SO hindered by Iraq costs.. NO IT F@#$#@G ISNT!
Stark is a liar or an idiot, take your pick.

Today Ohio's Sherrod Brown on expressing alarm about the new virulent staph bug implied that there would be much more rapid progress on finding its treatment IF IT WERENT FOR IRAQ!!!

You think he REALLY believes that? I bet YOU dont believe it. So what is he doing there?
And the Dems seem to pick the STUPIDEST things to raise an issue on.. supposedly there's a lot of work to do in Congress, but they had to take Limbaugh referring to 'Phony soldiers' out of context and try to make a meal of it.

Now tell me... WHO LOOKS STUPID?!!! At least it raised $4 million for charity

I'm just gonna say that I think that Progressives think it would be a good idea for the US to fail again, excuse me - FORFEIT AGAIN - as we did in Viet Nam. Well it's NOT going to happen; outr military is the best in the world, and they understand the 'new order of things, and how they are expected to carry out their duties. And now the Iraqis are TOO smart to be brainwashed by yet more antiwar propaganda and they are beginning to catch onto what is going on.

Those in the military... even those who dont want to be in Iraq and dont think we should have gone in are catching on, too.

 

Sherrod Brown, I rue the day he was elected. An arrogant, opportunistic SOB if there ever was one. He ousted one of the most decent, hard working, bipartisan members of Congress. Heard Sherrod on NPR talking about US companies abroad and either he is stupid or a liar (however I am quite certain he is not stupid). I worked as an engineer here and abroad with Germans, English, and French companies and what I witnessed in terms of environmental responsibility and worker health and safety was 180 degrees different from what Sherrod described. Fortunately, there were listeners similar to me who called in to challenge him but he scoffed them off. He reels out the line that will insure his re-election in OH. Our corrupt companies go overseas, exploit the environment and exploit the health and safety of local workers when actually the exact opposite is true.

 

Dammit! dont blame Brown for that.. blame Dewine. I worked on the fringes of his first state campaign and I saw the signs of what was to come.

In the big picture, Dewine symbolizes what all of us call the 'hold your nose and vote' factor. For the most part he does what we want but eventually goes off on his own natural path. Whereupon we dump his ass.

Brown got elected on the Dewine negatives, not on his positives.. he had none.
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You could write a book on politics just following Dewine's career. Greene county's Republican sheriff Russ Bradley {who was admired by everyone in the county but the outright Marxists at Antioch, and even they respected him} called him, in effect, 'an unctious little man' and he wasnt talking about Dewine's stature.
HE was talking about Dewine's proclivities toward scorecard prosecution of people that Bradley had 'arrested for effect'.
Naturally Bradley THEN had to change his way of keeping peace in the county.. which ended in deputies issuing many more warnings than arrests, which Dewine THEN used in his campaigns.. but of course, Dewine won out; mainly in the more 'cosmopolitan' western Greene Cty suburbs of Dayton; that is, those who had little contact with Bradley and his deputies, and how they managed to effectively police a truly diverse county.

 

The myth of 'Academic diversity'

Wondering what my buddy Don is gonna sayabout this...

A prime example of 'the elephant in the room' {I prefer the term 'jackass', though} that most seem to want to ignore.

 

RE: The myth of

And, you know what... if I bitched about EVERY freakin 'Progressive Outrage', I'd do NOTHING but post in the Golden Lion. For those who want to counter the idea of 'Upper Academic Indoctrination' I offer another example:

Hate Muslims? So do we!

Isnt it interesting that GWU was prepared to take strong action against a campus conservative organization .. though admittedly far less reactive than previously seen at Duke.

When the posters were traced to 'Progressives', though.. the viewpoint changed to a far less judgemental POV.

 

Holy Cow, you start a thread, go away for a few days, come back to FUSA, and realize what a hornet's nest you stirred up! If only I could have made Derby's net a bit bigger, but I digress.

First thanks for the kind words. Both sides of the fence are guilty as charged with disrespecting the office of the president, the liberals are most recently guilty because a Republican is in the White House and they aren't going to get their way more often than not. After listening to that little man Pete Stark act totally inappropriately for the stature of his office last week, I just had to say something. You may not like his positions, you may think he totally fell off the turnip truck, but he is your president. And yes, in the 90s, even soem of us in the military failed to realize that line of respect -- I remember an Air Force General saying somehting about Clinton being a draft dodging pothead, or something to that effect, and he was retired with a quickness. That was right when I joined the Army. Of course, a lot of soldiers went behind their locked doors at the end of the day and rolled their eyes, but we did it the right way -- quietly, and out of the eye of the media.

One interesting thing is that I am leaving the financial field and entering education, and in between stufying for the GREs (borrrrrrrring), I am wondering how being a conservative in a liberal field will be. I've had mortars fired at me, seeing a politically correct principal should be a little easier! (I hope!)

 

Bless you for your service....past and upcoming.

I remember that general.. cant think when it was but thought: "What a putz... he MUST have been asking for retirement and was denied."

The answer is to spread yourself around socially. There's gonna be liberal faculty members that you can get along with, in most other ways. Dont forget to find out what issues you and your new faculty mates agree on.

As I wrote here: