How will we know MLS has Arrived?

I prefer to couch things in a little more positive terms than some, however dont think I'm going to abandon a debate based on filibustering by use of unsupported dogmatic meme.
- Whatever-

To determine that MLS is alive and well and is long term viable; here are my two metrics:

1. At least three teams announce plans for stadium expansion
- Note the first hurdle has passed, almost all teams will be playing in their own venues in 5 years.

2. MLS games attract 3-5 times the TV viewing audience of NHL games.

Once that happens and certainly the second looks more likely to happen first... THEN we'll know the League can transfer salary and contracts control to the clubs.

 

Success in my eyes can be measured by, increase in:

1. Number of local kids who wear that team's jerseys to school.

2. Number of local adults who have tattooed the club badge on a body part. Extra points for putting it on your left chest.

3. Number of local adults who wear full kits to pick-up or organized matches.

4. Number of local pubs who market and promote themselves as the Clubs pre and post-match headquarters.

5. Number of times the players visit the local hospitals and charities to lend a hand, gift presents, or give money.

6. Number of players who go out of their way to learn the language and become accessible to the community, freely providing autographs whenever, wherever.

7. Number of player jerseys handed to someone they know from the community after each match.

8. Number of high fives given to fans during a match.

9. Number of days given off by local schools to support their Club's championship parade, which is widley promoted on local radio and television.

I'm sure I could go on, but hopefully by now, you get the gist.

Monsieur Petit is measuring in dollars, what I think is nearly immeasurable, but can be felt and seen. You can't buy genuine passion and support, you have to earn it (and not with money).

Capisce?

 

Now... here's a thought....Using those Metrics in a similar situation:

The Buckeyes, 'bama, Auburn and Wolverines should be in the NFL.

Of course, if PCB's list came to pass, then my 2 metrics would have as well.

And I suggest, gentle readers...Yes, it IS all about the money!

Like it, dont like it... TOUGH! It's life.

 

Re: RE: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

Okay, Gordon Geeko.

 

RE: Re: RE: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

Hmmm ...yes, it's within the realm of possibility that everyone in central Ohio can be crazy about the Columbus Crew, and still not go to games or watch them on TV.

And gene splicing is making great progress, mind those flying pigs!

 

RE: Re: RE: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

Ain't talking about central Ohio, Professor. I'm talking Columbus.

You gotta walk before you can run.

 

RE: Re: RE: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

Whether we like it or not, MLS and other leagues around the world are BUSINESSES. The idea of creating a business is to make money. If MLS can't make money, the league can't grow and expand the fan base bigger than what it is because the owners and league will NOT be able to afford better players. Therefore, it will be a slow process for this league to grow the fan base that FFCinPCB is looking for.

What MLS needs to look into is ticket pricing and such. I guess I am just complaining, but I cannot justify spending $20 to go to a Fire match and another $15 to park at the stadium. To me, that is a rip off.

I know someone will say, but you would pay that price to see MLB, NFL or NBA. To that I would say, when going to an NBA, MLB or NFL game, you are going to see the best players in the world at that respective sport. For that, you should pay decent money.

However, for MLS you are clearly NOT seeing the best players in the world, rather you are seeing a collection of some solid homegrown talent and some foreigners who are not good enough to play in bigger leagues around the world. That being said, MLS should look into making the whole MLS matchday experience cheaper and more feesible for average MLS supporters like myself.

If your stadium is half full, your team either stinks or the prices are too expensive. I would guess in MLS where there is some parity, that ticket prices are too high and the average sports fan is not going to think about going.

Therefore, MLS has a catch 22, do they lower ticket prices and potentially suffer with income league makes or do they keep the prices as is and go with what has been done the last few years which to me is not necessarily working.


We all have our opinions of how MLS can and should succeed, but all ideas have their flaws. I think money and ticket prices are a big factor in my own decision NOT to attend matches. We all spend money in our own ways and there are many who gladly drop the $35 it costs to park and get a ticket, but I am NOT one of them. I love the sport, but not enough to pay those kinds of prices for an MLS match.

 

RE: Re: RE: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

To answer the question... I am not sure if we will ever know.

I don't pretend to be an expert, but when a league lets a team with one of the better attendance records move to another area for no apparant real reason. The excuse was that the "Dyna-Quakes" could'nt get a "Soccer Only" stadium deal, so they up and move to an area with, can you believe it, no "SO" stadium (I'm not even sure if they have one in the works, I don't really care). To me they are not looking out for the fan, but only for themselves.

MK

 

The problem was just that no one wanted to step up on the stadium issue, it took AEG moving the team out to get the locals off the dime

wiki:

 

I think that if MLS got as much coverage as tennis in this country that would be a great start.

 

RE: Re: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

They already get the coverage... ALL MLS games this season will be televised, at least regionally.
What they need is viewer ratings. Hopefully that will inspire game attendance, not replace it.

By the way, that SHOULD mean even more games on MLSNET vid-streaming package, some will still be blacked out, of course.
If the season package is $40 bucks or less, I'll buy it again

 

RE: Re: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

But more than just television coverage, MLS needs to be on national networks other than ESPN2.

 

RE: Re: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

If we start seeing more Tommy Smyth on Sportscenter then the day has come. MLS is just as popular as NHL. Did you know that only 736 people in the NYC Metro area watch the Devils v. Panthers on January 27th? The Red Bulls get more viewers than that!

 

RE: Re: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

That may be the deal in NYC, but in Detroit you'd be hard pressed to find 10 people that can name 2 MLS franchises, yet those same 10 people can name the starting 5 for the Red Wings in a heartbeat.

 

I think Terry has a point. Hockey is a tough sport to compare to because in certain places (Detroit, Boston, Minnesota, Buffalo), it is a major sport in a way that MLS will probably never reach in any given market (except maybe LA or DC) but in other parts of the country it is a very, very minor sport that in a few years I expect MLS to surpass.

Tennis is a good example of the next goal of MLS.

Also, how much does it matter how big MLS is as long as we can see the games on TV, it gets good coverage on the net., etc? I agree with Don that it would have been nice to be able to buy championship T-shirts after DC United won, but at least I could order them on the net. I think this matter of bigness was more important a few years ago.

One problem is inertia. Even though hockey is a minor sport in much of the country, ESPN SportsCenter is used to showing their highlights. The tough thing for MLS is getting into the highlight rotation. At least for much of it's season they are only competing with baseball and NBA/NHL playoffs (which involve relatively few teams).

I understand that it needs to get more popular to bring in more money to pay good players, but it can acheve that at a reasonably modest level even if it does not become as big as many of us would like.

 

Re: RE: Re: RE: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

Tom, I think the flaw in your argument is that lowering ticket prices will not draw that many more fans into the stadium. It may not be the best soccer in the world, but people like us are pretty much the only ones who know about that or really care much. For most people, it's the best level of soccer they can see.

The problem is the lack of a base of people who would be willing to go see a game at any price. Before I started watching Fulham in 2003 and getting interested in soccer, I had never been to a DC United game and probably would have not gone if the tickets were free. I don't think there is a big bunch of people waiting for MLS teams to lower their prices. Much of the crowd at DC United games are Hispanic immigrants whom I would expect are at the lower end of the income spectrum, but they go to the games.

Let's equate MLS to lower-level Division 1 college basketball (not the top level but unlike American minor league teams, they are really trying to win and not just develop players to help other teams win). A ticket of $20 plus parking is not an unreasonable fee for games at that level (like in this area George Mason, GW, etc.).

The fact is that we want MLS to be run like a major league sport. To do that means they need money, and without a big TV contract or other sources, ticket sales are the main source of revenue. If we want MLS to be run like a major sport, we have to be willing to pay the price.

 

As a hardcore hockey fan, I have to disagree with this. Hockey is a distant fourth in ESPN's eyes - they'd much rather show yet another dunk in a college hoops game than anything from a hockey game that doesn't involve Sidney Crosby. It's purely circular self-promotion since ESPN televises basketball, football and baseball, but not hockey. As I understand it, they won't even accept advertising from the NHL now that they don't televise any hockey. I'm half-shocked that ESBN (Extreme Sports and Basketball Network) even carries the NHL in their tickers anymore.

[/dismounts high horse of righteous indignation]

 

RE: Re: How will we know MLS has Arrived?

I played soccer for a couple years when I was ten/eleven. Then lost interest in it for more than a decade. I briefly entertained the thought of trying out for my highschool team, but (due to some back problems) never gave it more than a fleeting thought.
Then, (8 years later) the 2006 World Cup comes along, and my office has every game playing in the lunchroom. At first, it was just my excuse to not work, but then I got hooked. I started checking online for stats and learning the players. Then, a group of people from my church all started getting together for some co-ed games. Now we meet twice a week for games and all of us have subscriptions to FSC or online subscriptions to mlsnet or setanta or whatever.
My guess is that it will just take time to grow in the states. I've since gone to one MLS game (the RSL home game where they ended DC's unbeaten streak. Great game, sad loss for my team).
If Vegas had a team, I would buy season tickets and never miss. Ever. A year ago I couldn't name a soccer player besides Beckham to save my life (and I only knew him cause Kiera Knightley was in a movie with his name on it).
Anyway, I'm more than willing to pay whatever the league is charging now, but wouldn't have been a year ago. There are plenty of other people that will just slowly get warmed up to it until they're hooked and I think ESPN carrying so many of the league games will make it even more accessible to those who've been ignoring it.

Don Garber said samething that I felt was spot on (quoted from "Climbing the Ladder"). Here is the link http://usasoccer.blogspot.com/search?q=don+garber

"COACH: Are you contemplating any changes in the game itself that might stimulate scoring? Americans are weaned on home runs, three-point baskets, 50-yard forward passes, and hat tricks. They have problems living with scoreless ties and shoot-outs. Is anything visible being done in this area?

GARBER: There are plenty of NBA fans who like three-point plays and NFL fans who enjoy touchdowns. But there are nearly 50 million fans who love soccer because it is a strategic, highly anticipated hour and a half that doesn't necessarily have to have the scoring that you will see in football and basketball.

Until we are able to get those fans into the fold, we are not going to explode out to people who aren't really soccer fans. I don't think we have a large percentage of people who can be drawn into the game over night.

Our fans are kids who play, people who are watching the Women's World Cup, going to the World Cup games, playing at the grass roots revel, and nobody in that group is complaining about goal scoring.

But, we don't have a large enough percentage of such people in the fold as yet. The problem is this: Do we have to change the game in order to achieve a much broader fan base?

Until we solidify the people who are already soccer-involved, we shouldn't be thinking of going outside that box."

Now back to me again:
Soccer is soccer. It's an amazing game. The GREATEST game. There are those who will appreciate it in the States once they are exposed to it. Most will probably be like me and played when they were little but lost their way. I feel like the MLS has been very wise about the salary caps they've put on, and the controls they have placed over the teams. Now we are getting to a place where more freedoms are being given to the clubs and more attention is being paid to it. Our day will come! I can envision a day in the not so distant future when our league will carry the prestige of the other European leagues (maybe not the EPL or La Liga, but certainly the Dutch or Scottish league) and will be able to back it up with fans filling the seats and stadiums.
And tattoos aplenty!

But I completely agree with you Dave, MLS needs our support. If we want the big names, then we gotta first prove that we're worth the big names. We gotta give the big names a reason to come play here. Beckham is taking a chance in doing so (not financially in any way, but in fame/career prestige yes). Going from arguably the top league in the sport (second at very least), to a league still nursing from its mother's teat, he runs the risk of his soccer glory fading out. I don't see that as becoming the norm. For the time being, we are gonna be "stuck" with the foreigners who couldn't make it in Europe and our own homegrown talent. But Hell, I've found those boys to be rather entertaining and they can count on me to make the 4-6 hour drive to LA and Salt Lake to catch as many games as I can afford to see.