Happy Independence Day

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Tony_USA, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. Tony_USA

    Tony_USA New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Well ... someone's gotta say it, ain't they?

    ... and to answer a question I have been asked most of over here ... NO, we don't celebrate it back 'ome!!
     
    #1
  2. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Well, you SHOULD!

    Recognizing that it wasnt so much a "Revolution" as a Civil War within the Empire (and the 13 colonies, themselves), and signaled a sea change in the governance of the colonies... from that point on the administration of the nether outposts was given more attention.

    Australia as an example, less an exile/penal colony than a vital holding to be developed with attention to the needs and rights of the settlers themselves.
    A Nepali view: US Independence Day - Memorable Event For All
    Note the effect of the Stamp Act; it is reasonable to assume that the colonial citizens WOULD have been amenable to some degree of taxation to cover GB's expenses for the previous war, it certainly WAS in our interest... but the arbitrary nature of the Act and its passage with no input on the part of Americans led to the changing of attitudes of those involved.

    And, ultimately, things changed even within Great Britain.

    No, things didnt change overnight but, seen globally, the American "insurrection' was key in the long term view of the Empire being regarded as one of the most beneficial and positive Imperical efforts in history.

    ANd I never have looked but would be interested in someone pointing out how Parliament changed the taxing structure regarding Canada over the next decades.

    Happy Fourth!!!!
     
    #2
  3. Tony_USA

    Tony_USA New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Location:
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Very interesting point of view, that being it wasn't a revloution but more a Civil War. I didn't look upon it that way, though I accept the meaning. Unfortunately, if that was to propogate to this day, then it would justify ANY State deciding that it didn't wish to adhere to federal Government policy, and 'break away' to pursue it's own policies because it didn't agree with Federal Policy. Where would that leave us all?
    As a Brit, reading up on the Revolution, I cannot disagree with the reasons for the uprising. History has shown that it was (possibly) the best thing that happened here, in the long run, but to class it as a Civil War, to my mind, is a long stretch. The fact that it was to be inevitable should be taken more into account. The British Empire did a lot of good things, as well as a lot of bad, mostly good I would say, but it failed to adhere to the one principle I believe America was founded on, that being that all men (and women) are born free and equal. The British Class system has failed in the past (and still fails to this day) to assert that right.
    Don't get me wrong, the US is a great nation, one of the bastions of freedom in the world, and I firmly believe is perhaps the greatest proponents of freedom. It's a great Country to live and work, and I wouldn't want it any other way.
    Again, Happy Fourth ... it's deserved
     
    #3
  4. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    The reasons to call it 'Civil War' extend beyond governance and semantics to the very culture itself.

    It is no coincidence that the constitution and legal system are based on British models... nor is it really correct to say that
    Those came later and still are being legislated and adjudicated.. see recent SCOTUS decisions.

    Indeed it WAS a Civil War for the reason that many in the old country saw the 13 as populated by religious misfits and ex-cons. Thus the Stamp Act was imposed by the elite Board of Governance.

    Then as now, it boils down to 'States Rights' and the input allowed the citizenry of those domains.

    Isn't it a wonder, though, that despite the vengeful actions of the British in 1812, the US STILL saw itself birthed by Great Britain? And again, in the 1860's... adversarial relationships were quickly put aside after the confilcts were over?

    That even European immigrants largely saw the 'soul' of their new nation as rooted in the British traditions?
    That VERY FEW in the very large German-rooted population in the US protested or worked against US siding with Britain in Both World Wars!

    Britain may indeed, in my opinion, point with some pride TO the ungrateful whelps that broke away as true to the ultimate British tradition of justice. No... these things dont come easily and without pain but aint the result glorious!

    Which brings us to long and short term views of US international activity... and Iraq.
     
    #4
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