PoliSci 101

EXCLUSIVE: Lobbyists help Dems draft climate change bill

Of course! Because HalliBushCheneyBurton was EVIL and Dems are GOOD, dontcha know!
Always looking out for the little guy.. and other assorted huddled masses.

Hopey-Changey!

 

Even more like Halliburton and even worse than Halliburton is this

 

Gee... you get the feeling that all those who are starting to show the inner rot surfacing are being scapegoated.
Been smelling ripe a long time, but sooner or later a few have to sacrifice themselves for the many.

Right, Prime Minister Pelosi, in charge of eliminating the 'Culture of Corruption'?

 

Put down your partisan prism - they're all evil. Some just more than others. Be careful in defending Halliburton and Cheney folks - once the litigation/investigation dust settles, it's going to be a very ugly, unparalleled stain on the country.

 

RE: Re: PoliSci 101

Don, that's great. You're exactly 100% right. But you missed the point... 'Hopey-Changey'

Bradical: You STILL smoking that stuff?

Tell ya what... Buy a piggy Bank

Put in a penny tomorrow, then double it next day, and double it every day till that happens.... you'll love me for it.

 

Here is a former soldier's opinion on Halliburton -- I loved them.

Check that. I LOVED them. You know GJ's man crush on Nevland? That's about the level that we are talking about here.

Where they were, supplies and good chow were not far away.What more could a ground pounder ask for. Regardless of your political persuasion, I hope everyone takes that information into their filters when they talk about what Halliburton does. They made our job a lot easier, and in the case of the mess halls, even almost pleasant. (Almost). I feel like I got my tax dollars worth out of them and more.

 

Hatter, do I need to remind you again? :shock:

 

All I am saying is this -- a soldier with boots on the ground has better things to say about them than you will usually hear in the media. They made my job a lot easier over there. If you want to use that information, fine. If you do not want to, well, that's your prerogative too. Have they enjoyed too cozy a relationship w/ the Pentagon? At times sure, but have they done a lot of good that you don't hear about? You betcha.

 

Let's back up a little. I'd be MORE than willing to see Halliburton and subsidiary KBR contracts and practices reviewed*. Such processes go along with the nature of no-bids.
In fact, I thought that was one of the 2006 election issues... we were going to pry away those shutters of secrecy. Madame Prime Minister said so.
If it happened, we didnt hear much about it. Or did they rely on the GAO, whose business it is after all, and decide 'Never Mind' and just not tell us about it?
About 'No-Bids'.. I'd think someone in the contracting business would have an idea how the government relationship with listed firms works. If a firm is in the business of 'rapid response', they are always favored and, because they have to support the overhead of process and resource in place, they are going to be more expensive.

Even the bid process does not always select the 'best for least' offerer. I know that for actual fact, having been involved. It's not just at the higher level that the biz lobbyist writes the govt document.
The terms and req's of the RFQ {request for quote} can be written so that only one respondent meets the conditions. And USUALLY that is for the best because the 'customer' can look at others who use the product or service needed and use that to select. Otherwise, there's the probability of wasting money on systems that never work. It's awful hard to specify 'quality/reliability' in the RFQ. I want to clarify that the potential vendor may NOT write the RFQ. That is illegal. The 'customer', in this case, uses features and services unique to the vendor to make the specific qualifications.

In short, I have the feeling that all that smoke about Halliburton was anti-corporate posturing and once the Dems took control of congress, notwithstanding their OWN suspicious corporate ties, they knew there was nothing much to it and didnt want to embarrass themselves.

* In fact I seem to recall KBR was reviewed and fined a hefty sum at least once.

 

You want dirt on KBR? Read this.

But, taking their own image graphic as an example, I have to question the accuracy of the article itself. I know electricity and that image is bullshit. It's a neutral/ground strap and those 'orphan wires' mean nothing. It's the terminations of that strap that count.

By no means do I mean to say that KBR is blameless.. if they are the contractor and they were responsible for the whole unit in question, they ARE responsible for shoddy wiring.
But it still raises more questions than it answers. If the plumbing became hot.. how the hell could that happen? The water plumbing should all be plastic. CPVC or PEX, because of the temporary nature of the units. Why are they using copper?

And I've seen lots of 'conductor-lok' switches and outlets and only ONCE seen a wire fall out of them. UNLESS they were the type that inserts from back and intends tightening the side screws, that couldnt happen as described. It would have been easy to explain that, but it wasnt said. But there are indications if that was the case.. like flickering lights and switches warm to hot to the touch.
So we're expected to accept that EXTREMELY SHODDY work just happened to exhibit no symptoms of same, I have LOTS of concern about that. Yes, it could happen but in my experience it ALMOST ALWAYS shows symptoms.

According to the article, the majority of the installations are code-deficient. A significant number are actually dangerous. If that's the case why is this only surfacing now. Despite the idea that you have to be an expert to recognize such, the truth is a significant number of our troops are conversant enough with electrical theory and practice we would have heard about this loud and clear.

Residential wiring is not rocket science it only requires a knowledge of basic electricity.. if you want a primer I'll write you one. Just one long as usual pettyfog-post.

 

Steve - I'd be interested to hear your take on the documentary "The War Tapes" (2006). It was filmed by soldiers on the ground in Iraq. I found it profound and unbiased. It made me even more proud of our troops and their sacrifices, as it comes from such a unique perspective - from the troops.

In the film, they talk about, amongst other things, how they were sometimes ordered to protect Halliburton property ("Why the #$@# am I guarding a [Halliburton] truck full of cheesecake?"), and how Halliburton charged the American taxpayer $28 per disposable picnic plate used daily in messhalls, and - possibly the lasting image of the film - how one soldier struggles with the image of a Iraqi civilian being run over by a Halliburton truck.

 

Re: RE: Re: PoliSci 101

Don't know what you're talking about. I'm fed up with government-approved corporate fraud with ten zeros after it at the expense of the taxpayer, if that's what you mean.

 

Re: RE: Re: PoliSci 101

If that's what you mean, good. As long as you apply the same to government entities... like Fanny and Freddie. If you look at the impetus and connections to those private corps, also EXCELLENT.

If you mean to imply that nationalizing those evil corporations would make them more accountable and lessen the waste, then my comment stands. Otherwise, my friend, you have a lot in common with those tea-party activists. Get in touch with your local organizers, like this one, because the waste increases by the day. Note3 I said 'like'; only hook up with independents..stay the hell away from anyone who features party or Paulian speakers.

However my take was that you expected some sort of investigation and neck-tie party for Cheney and his Halliburton ties... I explained that, above. Aint gonna happen.

 

Re: RE: Re: PoliSci 101

That is my expectation. Fraud of this scope requires a massive undertaking to quantify/qualify. The KBR fines you mentioned earlier were levied in February 2009, but had nothing to do with 2003-present Halliburton activities. They were in relation to FCPA violations (bribery) that took place when Cheney was CEO, before his huge severance. In other words, it took a decade to resolve those issues. I think it will be several more years before Halliburton arrives at similar settlements for their (and their subs) practices in Iraq. $28 for a paper plate? Multiply that for every paper plate used in Iraq, then add the markup for every other item Halliburton and its subs supplied, look at every contract and how it was created, etc., what... it just takes a very long time (and a very good investigative team) to quantify. Even then it will be a low estimate.

By the way, the main tenet of fraud is that it is the only crime that inherently involves cloaking and deception in its every commission - that is why it is so undetectable, and why you're pretty much assured that you never catch all of it. I just want as much of those defrauded taxpayer billions as possible to go towards our deficit, or other needs.

 

RE: Re: RE: Re: PoliSci 101

I see your point now.

It raises a whole different set of issues. For one, that's a case you're never going to see in an international court. It would have to be tried in a fully domestic venue and even then you're going to see several countries, France for sure, trying to find a way to have it quashed.
Talk about a can of worms.

 

So do you just want Cheney/Haliburton investigated or should we go through every past administration and every act?

Cronyism is older than time. That's not to say we should roll over and take it, but it's so pervasive, on so many levels. How do you fairly decide where to start, who to target, and where to draw the lines? Fog mentioned Fannie and Freddie. Listing all of the instances occurring right now would take a book. And you wouldn't have a legislature left when you were done.

 

And the specific case would have to include 'Usual and customary business practices of the region'. Sounds easy enough, we're americans, we're exceptional. Still it would have to be considered in order to be excluded, at the end.

What that would bring out is the motives behind France and Russia not joining in the SecurityCouncil Resolution to invade Iraq for non-compliance. They had already been paid up.. and been rewarded.

Nope FulhamAg is right; the best thing to hope for is to start now and reform for the future.. the shit's gotten out of hand. I just dont have much hope.. we're already seeing not much difference, or maybe getting worse.